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OK, this is my fourth time typing this... Let's see if I can post it before I accidently delete it lol

 

It's funny, I was thinking about that question today. My friend (and the only person to really know the extent of my marital issues) asked me that same thing six months ago. At the time, I answered that I just wanted to not hate my husband. This was more than a desire for me, it was more a revelation. I don't hate anyone, even people that have hurt me in unimaginable ways. So for me to actually hate the one person I wanted more than anything to love above anyone here on Earth was really something. Now that I don't hate him (most days) it is easy for me to get into overlooking things he does and just let things go that I'm learning I shouldn't.

 

So after some consideration, I would say that the one thing I'd love to have fixed easily and completely would be the lying. It is my biggest pet peeve and somehow I ended up with a husband that does it constantly! Even the smallest lies (that I'm impressed he can recall because they were so stupid that I can't even remember what they were, and I remember everything) hurt me so much. They hurt me to the point that I can no longer respond to them in an adult way. (As I tell my daughter, you have to "use your words".) I get so upset that I either end up having a near temper tantrum or a panic attack (occasionally both). It is not a healthy way to respond, but they bring up so many bad memories and so much pain and paranoia that it all just comes out in a ball of anger or defeat. It's like the tiny bit of trust he's worked at getting me to put into him is gone.

 

I started reading the white book today. Just thought I'd let you guys know. :)

Edited by amak0911
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He posted last night (yay!), but says it hasn't shown up yet.

 

It will be hard for me to not read it, but I promised I wouldn't, and I won't. I have this fear that he will charm his way out of responsibility of this, or convince everyone that there are no problems (like he usually does, which causes me to feel like I'm crazy). I get that part of this is my baggage that causes this fear and need for control, and that you guys see this all the time and are not "charmed" easily. I have also been asking God to help me just "give up my desire for control and let Him work".

 

I also started reading the "Responding to a Passive Guy" thread.

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Hi amak0911,

 

Welcome to the forum, so glad you are reaching out for help and direction. You have come to the right place.

So many people do not reach out for help and many times when they do, it's the old way of thinking, which gets you no where.

 

Tips on getting him to post....says he doesn't know where to start." (in regards to getting on the forum)

 

Maybe sit down together and help him get registered and come up with a "crazy" name. We don't want your neighbors googling ya'll.

"I knew that couple had issues." lol Like they don't. lol

 

He can post in the section "Ministry to men working to win their wives hearts back or he can even post on your string so ya'll can see the back to back posts without having to switch between strings. It's kinda like being on our worldwide marriage calls just here on the forum. Both getting the help you need to get the progress you both desire.

 

We have made a change in our Conference calls: They are Everynight EXCEPT Wednesdays and Fridays.

Calls are as follows:

 

Sun, Mon, Thurs start at 9pm eastern

Tuesdays start at 9pm with Joels' mom giving awesome Encouragement for life. That call runs into the Marriage call at 10pm

 

Saturday night call now starts at 10pm eastern.

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Thanks! Are the moderators the same? And if I wanted to try the woman's calls, when would those be?

 

He is registered under BlessedMan86, he said he forgot to say it was me he's married to in his post.

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 I get that part of this is my baggage that causes this fear and need for control, and that you guys see this all the time and are not "charmed" easily. I have also been asking God to help me just "give up my desire for control and let Him work".

 

We DO get the charm thing! When I first started here, my thread name was "Charming husband....angry wife." LOL! And we also understand how you can be made to feel crazy. I still deal with that one. It's like a smile and the other person says: What? I didn't say/mean that? How could you think that? You just must not have been listening!  I find this crazy-making type of communication to be especially common in people who are alcoholics or who have been raised in alcoholic households.

 

I call it trying to nail jello to a wall! just doesn't work somehow...

 

I want to suggest to you that the healthy and balanced way for a wife is to partner with God to bring about the things He wants for both of you. You are to be your husband's helper - just as the Holy Spirit is our helper. Control is the fear based imitation of that. So yes, we want you to stop being controlling, but we don't want you to "just let Him work" because you are a part of God's work in your husband's life!

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OK, his post is up.

 

We have been overrun with spammers lately, and the only way to deal with them is to require someone's first post to be approved by a moderator before it will show up. Usually that's me, but I haven't been able to get on the forum in the last couple of days.

 

I want to suggest to you that the healthy and balanced way for a wife is to partner with God to bring about the things He wants for both of you. You are to be your husband's helper - just as the Holy Spirit is our helper. Control is the fear based imitation of that. So yes, we want you to stop being controlling, but we don't want you to "just let Him work" because you are a part of God's work in your husband's life!

 

 

 

Absolutely! The changes will happen easier and faster when you are an active part of the process.

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He saw it a few minutes ago. He had to run out to fill my gas tank so I can get our daughter to school on time tomorrow, so he hasn't responded.

 

Spammers are everywhere, I guess... that's awful.

 

As for finding a balance, I am working on that. I like that they stress in the book that it is ok to not have it balanced yet. (How can you when you've been knocked off balance?) It helps me to feel less guilty for it, while still reminding me that it's my job to work on it as he works on becoming Christ-like.

 

I have almost finished Livin' it and Lovin' it, and he started the first book today and agreed to have it finished in a week. I am looking forward to reading that one too.

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OK, sorry, 4ever (and anyone else reading this) I still can't figure out how to quote. I thought it had something to do with the "quote" button at the bottom of a response, but nothing happens when I click it. My husband said that it might work if I highlight it first, but that didn't work either.

 

You said, "It's like a smile and the other person says: What? I didn't say/mean that? How could you think that? You just must not have been listening!  I find this crazy-making type of communication to be especially common in people who are alcoholics or who have been raised in alcoholic households."

 

It is a lot like that. He doesn't come out and directly say that's not what he said, he just twists his words to make them seem different then what they are and does his best to convince me that I just interpreted his meaning incorrectly. Since most of the venom is how he says things and his body language, it isn't easy to explain to someone, even back to him, what he did. As for alcoholics, he isn't one, although he does have a family history of addictions so he probably could become one. You really may be on to something with that observation.

 

And as for the guilt, I just always feel guilty for something. That's part of my baggage I'm working on. ;-)

Edited by Looney_Tunes
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Spinning is typical of passive guys. They don't want to come right out and disagree with you, so they twist things around until you're not sure what you said anyway.

 

The thing to remember is that he has been doing this his whole life. It didn't start with you. It started in his childhood, because for whatever reason, it worked. It is so ingrained now that I'll bet he honestly doesn't see that he's doing it.

 

The only way to win this game is to refuse to play. When he starts spinning, just tell him that he's twisting the conversation, that you'll be glad to talk to him when he gets his story straight, and walk away. Don't let him suck you into a circular conversation.

 

I know that's hard to do, because one of the reasons this keeps happening is that you also play your part very well. Again, it's something you learned long ago for whatever reason. So when you change what you are doing, he won't have an audience anymore. In order to have a relationship with you, he will need to change the way he's communicating.

 

Make sense?

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Yes, it does. He just gets me so riled up. I start out by saying those exact words, "you're changing things around. That's not what was said, let me know when you have your story straight so we can talk". But then he starts arguing about that, and I'm just fed up and can't help but say something back and feed into it. I know I should treat him like the kids. When they start acting out or throwing a temper tantrum they get sent to their rooms and locked in (wish I could do that to him sometimes... LOL) or, if they can't be put there, I  exit and leave them to themselves. Even when they follow (which I am kind of putting as their equivalent of him starting a different argument) I just repeat the process. I can see that I need to do it, but it is very hard. Part of my being his help-meet is doing that though, and I need to.

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 or, if they can't be put there, I  exit and leave them to themselves. Even when they follow (which I am kind of putting as their equivalent of him starting a different argument) I just repeat the process.

 This is exactly right!  It is not disrespectful or wrong to set your (healthy!) boundaries and follow them. It just feels wrong. Hence the guilty feelings a lot of the time. For me, I had such a hard time waiting to receive an apology from my husband. I always ran to him and fixed things for both of us! He never had to think or struggle. He just came to know that if he abused me and then walked away I would sooner -or later- come after him and tell him what was wrong with both of us! Pretty crazy!

 

I remember one night in particular when he was very rude to me and in a moment of frustration I said to him: "Just get out of this bedroom and go sleep on the couch! I don't even want to be near you!"  My tone of voice was pretty rude! He just quietly said nothing.. and went out of the bedroom. Truth is, I really did want to be near him... just not when he acted like that.  I hated when I was driven to react that way. i judged myself as being unloving and unforgiving... It was a mess!

 

But I had just begun to learn the concepts from this ministry. I forced myself- literally had to keep myself from running out to the living room and making it all better! - forced myself to be still, but every fiber of my emotions and body was restless! I stayed put and prayed! In about ten minutes he walked back in and gave me the most wonderful, complete apology I had ever received from him in about fifteen years! It melted my heart! Wow! what a shock! He could do it! LOL...

 

And so can your husband! :)

Edited by 4evrHZdtr3
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I do the same thing now, although I haven't in a while. I have told him many times to just get out, sleep on the couch, etc. And in the past, when I didn't respond the way he wanted after he did so (going in and telling him what was wrong with both of us or simply apologize for over reacting), he would completely ignore me, if I still didn't give him what he was after, he would he would eventually come in and kind of apologize by doing something that I'd like, but never really saying he was sorry (passive aggressive, much?). He would then hold on to it for months! He blamed his cheating on this. He said that I do things like that and just push him away by yelling and over reacting and just making his life so miserable that he ends up having to be on the couch. (well, who wouldn't, he was behaving worse than our 2 year old was!)  I really hope he sticks with the program. I am getting a little worried though... Tonight is the last night of his week to make two posts to this forum, and he hasn't done it, even though I have asked many times over the course of the past week if he was intending too. He sat down last night for 10 minutes to respond, but never did actually post, and I told him that tonight my sister is having an online 31 party so I'd be on at 9:30. He keeps saying that he doesn't have anything to say. I told him that I don't really either, but that I keep posting anyway. He didn't really have much to say to that... <_>

 

I didn't come up with any ideas as to what should happen if he doesn't do this. And he is reading right now, and he did acknowledge that something he did hurt me after I told him so today, and after I told him that I was hurt more so by his lack of apology he did give me a sweet one. It's kind of a mixed bag kinda day, and I'm just kind of at a loss as to what I should do.

Edited by amak0911
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Hm, I edited that and then couldn't save the changes, I guess I ran out of time. Anyway, I wanted to edit to say that I certainly don't think he'd cheat again because I set boundaries; I do have my worries that he will not stick with this though, not because he doesn't agree, simply because it's hard and he doesn't want to. I also wanted to add that regardless of the choices he ends up making, I believe this ministry to be right in what they believe, and I will stick with it.

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Tonight is the last night of his week to make two posts to this forum, and he hasn't done it, even though I have asked many times over the course of the past week if he was intending too.

 

 

It's better not to do that. You are not his mommy. These guys struggle hugely with mother-son issues, and constantly reminding them of what they are supposed to do tends to reinforce that.

 

You're better off to come up with some consequences that you can enforce if he doesn't do what you ask. Then remind him nicely once or twice during the week, and leave it at that. It's your job to tell him what you need. It's not your job to make him do it.

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I didn't tell him to, I did ask if he was planning on getting on 3 times over the course of the week. When he'd answer with "I wasn't planning on it" I would simply say "OK" like it wasn't a big deal. I am having trouble knowing where to draw the line at what to say in order to help him, verses to hinder him. Any help here? I do not want to deal with any more mommy issues, believe me! (yuck!)

Edited by amak0911
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Is this process always so exhausting? :unsure:

 

I feel drained and raw. And a little frustrated. I feel like he's being overly kind and overly compassionate. It just feels fake. (Probably because it was fake when he'd act this way in the past) The over the top emotions, coupled with my anxieties, makes me feel overwhelmed. Being overwhelmed, I push him away, whether he is faking his feelings or not.

 

I try over and over again to explain why I don't want him to touch me, or ask me a million questions about how I'm feeling, and how I'm doing, and if I'm OK, but he doesn't seem to get it. I explain it so badly. He hasn't been getting angry with me the past few days, or acting hurt, but once I get passed the withdrawal that being overwhelmed causes, I feel raw and I need him. Once he's been turned away though, it seems like he doesn't want to even pretend to comfort me. He does it half heartedly.  

 

I don't know if you guys are familiar with anxiety disorders, but for me, they are triggered by day to day exchanges with people, like volunteering, or being in crowded places, or (*shudder*) somewhere that people are touching me. Now, I can do a lot of these day to day things without a panic attack, but suppressing the anxiety doesn't get rid of it. It kind of puts it into a bucket. After doing these things over and over, the bucket gets too full and that causes a full blown attack. The only way I am able to avoid that is to sit by myself and pray, or read, or something alone and quiet to help me not feel so enclosed (this empties my bucket some). I feel trapped even more if he starts to rub my back or something (it's like he's trying to fit more of something into that bucket, but it can't hold anymore). Once I do get over that feeling, I want and need to be comforted. I feel weak and exposed and I want the comfort of his arms to make me feel protected. (I needed him to just hold on to what he was trying to put in the bucket) It hurts me that he can't give me this, and he makes me feel like it is my fault when he makes it obvious he no longer wants to give it (if I had just taken it when he'd started to offer it, I'd have it and have no reason to complain.)

 

I am sorry if this post only sort of makes sense, or if it seems like I am just pulling topics at random. I'm so tired right now I can barely see straight, let alone think clearly. I just wanted to post because I don't know if I will have time later today or tomorrow. :)

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Is this process always so exhausting? :unsure:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, yes. We always say that a marriage restoration is much harder on the wife than it is on the husband.

 

Your post does make sense. I don't suffer from an anxiety disorder, but I am familiar with them. I've seen people I care about struggle with it. Not fun.

 

Have you ever explained it to your husband the way you explained it here?

 

Suggestion - print out multiple copies of that paragraph. When you are in the place where his touch is intrusive, hand him a copy and say Not now, but I need you to come back. The idea is for him to leave you alone for the moment and go read your explanation. When he does that enough times, it will sink in.

 

Would it bother you if I copy that and put it on his thread along with some comments?

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:D Yesterday we had a great date day.  He was sweet, and went out of his way to do things that I'd want to do. He went all around Target with me without complaint, so we went next door to Bass Pro to look around, then to lunch, bowling, and home for a late movie and snacks. It really was a great day. ...Until we got into bed. :roll:

 

We started talking and it was going well, until we began to talk about the 20/20/20/20 thing he had been telling me about (In the book, I believe they only had 3 20s.). I told him that while I love his hugs and kisses, I don't really like to be grabbed and pulled into a hug while we are out and about (I don't really like to be grabbed, at all; I'd rather not have a surprise hug period, especially after the panic attacks I had been having lately), and I don't really want to make out in public. I have told him this many, many times in nine years. I then told him that I do appreciate any compliment he gives me no matter where we are because they aren't physical and I don't get them very often, and I said something along the lines of "like today, you didn't give me any, and I would have really appreciated those instead of all the hugs you were trying to give me." So what does he do? He sits for a minute thinking about all our interactions through out the day and says, "I did too, I told you that you were sexy." Now, I have no memory of this at all, so if he did, I could not have heard him. I told him that it upsets me when he strays from the point I am trying to get across to point out ways that I'm wrong and he is right, that I can't recall this exchange, and that I wasn't trying to start a fight so why would he. So then it becomes, "I wasn't trying to start a fight or show you where you're wrong. I was just trying to remember if I had given you a compliment, and I had. I guess that's not really a compliment though." I do not see a difference here. I asked "Were you thinking about if I was wrong or not?" and he said he was, but then he said that's not what he was doing in the very next breath, so I just told him to turn off the light and talk to me when he could figure out what his story was.

 

This morning, he gets up and tries to make like nothing had happened, but I told him that I was still upset when he reached for my hand in the car on the way to get the kids, so he puts his head down and says, "I'm sorry." I ask what for, he starts trying to guess as to what he should be apologizing for; it became a question! " for not complimenting you? for... thinking about if I was right or not? For taking so long to say I was sorry?" Then he comes up with this gem "I'm sorry for trying to kiss and hug you, instead of giving you the compliments you were after" :blink:

I told him that he really needs to decide on what he's sorry for before I can accept it.

 

I don't understand why he gets so offended about my preferring his verbal reassurance to his physical.

He's been walking around on eggshells like I'm going to explode on him if he does something since we've gotten home, and it is driving me insane. I want him to grasp why I am hurt and simply apologize and mean it. I don't like being grabbed, this isn't a new concept; I don't like having someone hang on me, this isn't new either; I am not a huge fan of excessive PDA, a kiss on the head is nice, a long drawn out kiss is not, this has never changed, it is part of who I have always been. It hurts me that he feels the need to be right so badly that he is willing to miss the whole point I was making and starting a fight. It bothers me that he goes around after we fight like I am some crazy woman hell-bent on causing his misery. I'm not. I just no longer want to tell him that it's ok when it isn't. He shouldn't get to make me feel badly for being upset.

Edited by amak0911
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Sigh.

 

Unfortunately, he's pretty typical of a guy at this stage of the game.

 

The most effective way to get through to him is simply to become a broken record. This is not about you being right. This is about what I need. I do not like to be grabbed. When he tries to argue the point, just keep saying that over and over.

 

Remind him that if he doesn't understand or he's struggling to figure out what to do, that's what we're here for. He needs to get on the forum or on a call at that point and let us help him.

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