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The most effective way to get through to him is simply to become a broken record. This is not about you being right. This is about what I need. I do not like to be grabbed. When he tries to argue the point, just keep saying that over and over.

I do sound like a broken record. It's just so frustrating because I feel like I am always the broken record. Next time I will tell him to post or call too.

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I think you did a marvelous job of recognizing the junk - I call it "the crazies"- and putting it down here for us to see! And sadly, yes, Looney is right.. this is so typical early on. Try to remember that his poor communication skills are NOT the result of you not saying it clearly enough. There is not some magical way where it will be better, or that works for him, etc.. in other words, you don't have to adapt to him.. to understand him.. he needs to grow to understand and adapt to loving you! That's the process of growing up in a sacrificial way to become more Christ-Like. Think about it from the point of view of Christ-like. Would Jesus stand still and go: "Huh? Did you mean? What? "  No - He would stop everything.. nothing else in the world would matter to Him. he would give you ALL His attention.. and if necessary- like we do to small children- he would be down at your eye level- accommodating Himself to you.

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Not really much to report since I'm pretty sure he's already posted about what has been going on... We continued to fight on Sunday and I told him that if he couldn't accept my feelings as just that, he'd be on the couch, but we had some (non-marital) drama on Sunday night that left me truly needing my husband's comfort, which he gave me for the two hours he was able to before he needed to get up for work, so needless to say my boundary kind of got put to the side (or would have had we actually gone to bed that night). By Monday night, I was not wanting him to end up on the couch for not being able to take responsibility for his choices, but I was ready to make him. Praise the Lord it didn't come to that, though. It took a lot of my repeating myself, J & K's books, and you guys, but he was finally able to apologize for not listening to my heart before bedtime ::clap (another first! lol)

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This is good. I'm glad!

 

Father God, I ask for times of refreshing for amak0911. Help her to enjoy to the full, and receive every drop of oxytocin coming her way, when her husband bends his will to give her the validation she so desperately needs from him! Thank You Lord that Your Hand is on their marriage. Help her husband to stay the course. In Jesus' Name!

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Why are some things too good to last? I've been very on edge this week, and BlessedMan has been pretty supportive. We even had a pretty good three day weekend! But it just couldn't seem to last.

 

We have a lot of decisions to make about this summer, all of which involve finances. When I've asked for his input, he simply refuses to give me an answer. These decisions have to be made like now! The summer is starting tomorrow! I've been trying to just kind of let it go, but the longer he puts off actually discussing it with me, the more on edge I become. He won't do our finances, I have to plan when what bills get taken out, I have to be the one to schedule where our children are and how much it'll cost to get them there. I can't hold off on this any longer.

 

Last night, we get on the subject of his affair, and I asked him if the opportunity arose, would he still want to take it? He said that he would in fact still want to, but that he wouldn't because he's a better person now. Um, ok? I'm not sure how to take that.

 

Then tonight, he is outside grilling hot dogs and burgers. I said, "I will go butter up some buns so you can toast them on the grill." He said "Oh, yum, ok!" So I butter them up, take them out, and put them on the empty unlit side of the grill because the other side has food on it, and there aren't any empty plates. So I go back in and start something else. He comes in a few minutes later asking "Am I toasting the buns? Only half are on the burner. What am I supposed to do with them?" So I tell him, "When the food is about to come off, just toast them for a minute." He says "Yes, but only half are on the burner, you know, where the flame comes out? Only half are near the flames." I am just standing at the stove trying to figure out what he's saying while not letting what I'm melting burn. So he raises his voice, "What do you want me to do with the buns?" "When the food is done, just turn on the other burners and toast them. Can you really not figure this out on your own? I am trying to do something right now." Yes, I acknowledge I got a little snippy, but I really don't need him whining to me that he can't figure out how to toast buns. So he storms back outside. A few minutes later he comes back and starts raising his voice again "The way you put the buns on, only half are on the part where the flame come out." I just stand there, and I know that the look on my face is probably condescending, but this man has the audacity to come into my kitchen to yell about the fact that the buns are not exactly where they need be? Does he not have the tongs out there with him to move them? He needs to do this as I am making the rest of dinner, trying to keep the kids' from fighting, and prevent those big balls from Walmart from bouncing into the kitchen? I lost my temper. I asked how he was so stupid that he couldn't figure this out on his own. (I shouldn't have said it, I'm sorry for saying it. When I am not so irritated by the sight of him, I will apologize for it.) After dinner, he comes back into the kitchen as I'm cleaning up and says "I'm sorry for acting that way, but I didn't understand what you wanted. You set the buns up wrong." I started yelling again. I'm not even sure what I said to him. I just know that I really lost my temper. I set the buns up wrong? Seriously? So he stomped off again after he did the dishes and refused to speak to me. Now, 4 hours later he comes out and asks if we can talk. I ask why he is coming to me now when he sees that I am in the middle of something, instead of any time in past 4 hours. He replies with "I tried to ask you when you came out of the bathroom but you told me to go away. He's right, I did. 15 minutes ago. Why didn't he come to me in the past four hours? Why wouldn't he ask me to talk to him while he played on facebook in the bedroom? Or when he was done with the dishes? Why didn't he ask me when the kids went to bed? He knows that the longer he waits to talk to me about a problem, the more upset I get and the less I can think clearly. I am more likely to accept his half answers and his skating around responsibilities. It happens every time. I know that I am not innocent in this fight. I know that I didn't react as well as I should have. I know that I have been overly sensitive, but my response was a reaction. Yes, a very over the top one, but one nonetheless. I am just fed up with him trying to get me to do everything. I need to move the buns on his grill, I need to decide when he should take off of work for our vacation, I need to decide if the cost of full time VBS is worth it, or the cost of cheer camp and the gas to get down there. I need to know he's a better person now, and trust him to do the right thing. I get that he's like a toddler. He's testing his limits to see what he can get away with, but he isn't my toddler, and I do not have the patients I have for my own children for him anymore.

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Ugh. Don't you just wanna beat him sometimes? :wacko:

 

I feel your pain. My ex was very passive-aggressive too ... well, he still is, but now his current wife has to deal with it and I don't.

 

The short and easy answer, of course, is to stop bailing him out. He doesn't take care of these things because he knows that if he waits long enough, you will. So the textbook solution would be to say that if he won't move the buns on the grill, they don't get toasted. If he refuses to ask for time off for your vacation, you go without him. If he won't participate in the decisions about VBS or camp, the kids don't go.

 

Reality, however, is that as moms, we don't want our kids to pay the price for their dad's behavior. And that's the big catch with trying to hold a p-a guy accountable. They rarely suffer the consequences for their behavior - everyone else does. So sometimes we suck it up and make the decision to bail him out because the fallout for not doing it is unacceptable to us. I get it. I did it more times than I care to talk about.

 

So in the end, there are 2 questions you can ask yourself when he pulls this kind of crap.

  • What's the worst thing that will happen if he doesn't make the decision, do the task, or whatever, and can I live with that?
  • Is there any way to arrange things so that if he chooses to continue the p-a behavior, HE will suffer the consequences? For example, if he doesn't figure out when to take off for vacation, you and the kids go without him.

If it is at all possible to live with the results of his inaction, then your best bet is to do that and not bail him out. Toasted buns for your burgers are nice, but it's not that big of a deal if it doesn't happen. However, VBS might be really important to your kids, and you might decide that you don't want to disappoint them.

 

Do your best to think through those things whenever something comes up. I know that situations happen on the fly and you can't always think about it that logically, but do the best you can. Because the thing is that every time you suck it up and make the decision, toast the buns, figure out the finances, or whatever, you are enabling him to continue as he is. I totally get that sometimes it's unavoidable. But if you are going to do it, then it needs to be a choice on your part and not a knee jerk reaction. It needs to be a conscious decision that enabling him is the lesser of 2 evils.

 

As for your reaction, don't sweat it. Yes, we all need to be Christian girls, and yes, if you said some hurtful things then you do need to apologize. But sometimes when the prince is deliberately choosing to remain a frog, the princess comes out swinging. ;) Don't dwell on it. Repent and move on.

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The buns, I just told him to figure it out and leave me alone. I don't really care either way and my kids don't eat buns. It's his reaction to my not reacting that is grating on my nerves. I understand that this is a process and right now he's like a 3 year old. But I have patients for my actual 3 year old, I don't always have them my adult husband acting like one.

 

The vacation, he decided to take off the week of the fourth. I just hope he's smart enough to watch his speed because police will be out in full force and he has a bit of a lead foot. The consequences of his choices here will affect all of us.

 

What I'm still upset with is that he came on last night, read my forum, and then repeated what he thought I meant in it back to me as an apology. (And tried to hide the fact that he was reading it in the first place.) This is after he got mad and started pouting that I wouldn't listen to his apology now that he was ready to give it. "Are you going to let me apologize yet (with a sigh)" is not exactly the best way to start an apology in my opinion.

 

He's so frustrating. <_>

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Yeah, I know.

 

We actually want him to read your thread. He needs to know how you're feeling, and right now it's not safe for you to tell him in person.

 

The attitude with the apology screams loud and clear that it was all about him, not you. Just tell him to come back when he's adjusted the attitude.

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Thanks, MJ. I worry sometimes that I am doing this all wrong.

 

I couldn't post yesterday, but I just wanted to update you all. Saturday, he was alone with my friend because I had gotten sick after the boat. It took him longer (and keep in mind, I'm sick and sleepy so I could have judged the time wrong) than it takes me to get to her house. He did call me when he was on his way back. That was the context of my previous post where I asked "if the opportunity arose..." He kind of dropped the ball on that one and neither one of us really want to pick it back up. He did apologize for it, sort of?

 

Anyway, Tuesday night I lost it on him. I was just so angry with everything. I yelled, and yelled, and yelled some more. And when he'd try to inturpt with an excuse I'd yell over him to be quiet and listen. I'm not sure it was the best approach, but it worked. He finally just listened and took in everything I was saying, about how telling me that you're mad about my attitude and justified in not speaking to me is a REACTON to me, how I grew up in a PA home and don't want to repeat what I grew up with, nor do I want my children to. How his starting an unjustified fight (seriously, they're buns!) the day after you're late in getting my friend home had me worried because that's exactly how he was when he was cheating and he should have been reassuring me, not picking fights. He said he was sorry, for all of it and that he would keep working at this. And last night when our daughter and I got home late from her dress rehearsal, I was cranky and hungry and started a fight that was uncalled for. I quickly apologized for it. But then I got in the shower and he left a glass of cold water and a note saying he was sorry I'd had a rough evening and offered to rub my feet. It was sweet and I felt a little guilty, although, not guilty enough to not accept. ;-)

 

The events from Saturday still have me thinking about how everything was before though, and I'm still hurt and still needing to hear him reassure me that it won't happen again. I think he believes that if he says it once, it should stick with me, but it doesn't. He hurt me so badly that I am not sure it would be enough to reassure me a thousand times. I'm afraid to bring it up to him again because he has always gotten upset that I'm dredging up the past, and only reluctantly reassures my fears. Reluctant reassurance is about the same as none in my book.  

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We had an exhausting weekend (does anyone else feel like sometimes they aren't really two days but just one really long one?) Anyway, I had been saying since Friday that I feel disconnected from BlessedMan. And I do. I told him that I feel he is neglecting to do the work that he's been told to here. So we got on the call last night. The woman on the phone was feeling disconnected too. Her husband wasn't doing what he was supposed to be. At some point, she said he is on the computer a lot. He then became defensive saying it wasn't for very long periods at a time. I hope that got through to my husband.

 

D, I am constantly saying "Drop the shovel and walk away." If I point out that you are doing something to hurt me, you're already in a hole. This man was already in a hole. If you're goal is to not be in one, you shouldn't pick up the shovel and start digging by downplaying my feelings or defending yourself to make yourself look better. (Like you did Saturday night) If you're in a hole, you can't dig your way out.

 

Charlotte said that the 20/20/20/20 thing would help with feeling disconnected; I think BlessedMan already knew this; he got better with them yesterday.  And it would be nice to get closer to 20. I think I ignore the first 3 or 4 complements, mostly because it takes that many for me to believe him, so for him to give me 6 or 7, only 3 really get to my heart. And he never gives me hugs; I can't tell you how often a simple hug would be welcomed. A date would be nice also. I know money is almost always tight, but there are plenty of things that don't cost money around here to do. And babysitters are usually free for us living so close to family. These are things he knows that he is supposed to be doing, he just can't seem to do them, and if he does, it isn't consistently. It's like he doesn't want to do the work. How can you say that you want to save our marriage when you won't put the work in to get there?

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When she first found out and the long time after, just the look on her face and knowing how she felt was enough to never want anything other than her ever. But as time went by and she began to heal, I realized I do still have a tie to the woman. Much less now than before, but still there. I don't want an actual relationship with her as I once did. But she asked that if we were alone like we were when it happened and she tried to touch me and initiate something, would I let it? I said no. But my reply would have been "we can't do this", not "I don't want to do this".

 

As for contact with the other woman, my wife and her were really good friends. My wife has a very forgiving heart and they are still friends. On rare occasions they hang out at the house for a little, which would sometimes put me and her in a room alone for a couple minutes.

Now this is where what I was saying before comes in. We've gotten past the adultery a little bit.

 

These are quotes from May 27th/14, by your husband on his thread.  Your husband should never be anywhere near this "other woman".  It's not fair to him when he is trying to learn to love his wife in a Christlike way.  The Bible talks about avoiding the appearance of sin, fleeing temptation, etc.  Joel and Kathy advise a couple to move 500 miles away from the adultery partner if at all possible! 

 

This woman is not your friend, amak9011.  It is not your responsibility to maintain a friendship with her.  It's not wise, for the sake of your marriage.  It puts an extra burden on your husband, while he's working to become a Christlike man.  Please take this to heart and tell her it's over.  There are lots of other Christians in the country who can befriend her and help her overcome her issues.  Please, it is not up to you.

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I realized I do still have a tie to the woman.

Is he on the same planet I am?

 

 

But she asked if we were alone like before when it happened

I guess my miscommunication was that he thought I was referring to the other woman; I was referring to any woman.

 

I am still friends with her. We have mutual friends. I have known her longer than I have my husband. I am not friends with her to help her over come her issues, and she does have her issues, nor save her soul, or anything else. I am friends with her because she is closer to me than my own sister. If it is a burden to him, it is one he created.

 

I love my husband, but what happened was on my him, not her. My husband developed feelings for her and inappropriately acted on them. She has her share of issues, yes, and he used them to his advantage. She believes that it was her choice, I agree. However, it was a choice she would not have made under normal circumstances, and even he admits that.

He has seen her for all of a minute or two on our/his way out. Yes, this could put him in a room alone with her. I agree with you though, they should not be alone.

Edited by amak0911
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God does not want her near him. I will not put him in a situation where he could get those feelings back. I was getting to this in my last post, but it was in a defensive way. I still believe what happened was on him, but that is irrelivent. Tonight getting into the shower God spoke to me and made that perfectly clear. If BlessedMan is to become what God wants him to become, my job as his helpmeet is to support and help him get there.

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Yes.  The helper position of a wife is not easy, but, well, it's our calling, beginning with Eve in The Garden.  Personally, I feel I avoided this "calling" for the first 25 years or so of my marriage.  I didn't think I "could" do it.  The thought of telling my husband he was hurting me and had to stop it, was too intimidating.  I was wrong.  With God we can do whatever we are "called" to do! 

 

It's kind of nice to begin to notice yourself actually becoming stronger as a person or growing in the Lord -- because of having to "help" our husband grow. 

 

I still have strong reservations about your friend.  I'm sure she was a wounded woman and ripe for a man's attentions, but she had an affair with YOUR husband! I don't think it's good for YOU, not just for your husband to be continually connected to her.  This friendship is bound to be a hindrance to the healing of your marriage.  I'm sorry that you've known her so long and so well, but I think being her friend is a constant reminder of the pain she and your husband inflicted on you -- whether you feel like it is or not.

 

May the Holy Spirit continue to reveal to you what He intends to heal. 

 

Bless you.  

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It's a tough situation, isn't it? My best friend is like my little sister too. If I were married and my husband had an affair with her, I honestly don't know what I would do. I know what the right thing is to do, but I'm not sure I could do it. It would be like cutting off my right arm. So I do understand where you're coming from.

 

So yeah, at the very least, they cannot ever be alone together or have any communication with each other that you are not involved in. I would also suggest not getting together at your place ... meet somewhere for lunch or go over to her house ... to prevent the possibility of them running into each other as much as possible. He is never, ever going to be able to look at her without remembering the affair. That's just how guys work. Anytime he even sees her, it is going to pull his heart away from you a little bit. As you said, your job as helpmeet is to support him, and that includes not knowingly putting him into a situation where he is likely to fail, even if the failure is only in his head and is not acted upon.

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That's a lot of how it is, Loony. I am curious as to what the protocol would be if she were my sister. Would I still not have any contact with her?

 

 I know he still has a shadow of those feelings in his heart, despite how he denies it. But you guys keep saying affair, and to me, that implies emotional connection as well. On his part, in his head, it was. On hers, it wasn't. I get that you guys are speaking words of caution I greatly need to hear, believe me, I truly appreciate it! And I can't go into details any more than I did because that conversation begins to go away from me and into her, and I won't do that to someone. She has her demons and that is really all I can say. Maybe it was just that she wanted a guy right then, I'm not sure. Had she been in her right state of mind, maybe she'd have still had a crush on him, I don't know. All I know is what happened, and I know that had she been in her right state of mind, it wouldn't have happened. He had been having an affair in his heart for a long time. Ask BlessedMan what happened. He needs to admit that he took advantage of the situation out loud to someone. It weighs on his heart; I know it does.

 

As for what I said about last night, about God speaking to me, I know there are Christians that take a lot of meaning from dreams, speak in tongues, etc. (My grandmother was the only person I have met to do that. Even though I didn't understand any of it until after she passed.) Do you guys believe that? Unfortunately, my grandmother isn't here to ask, but I was thinking about her last night and wishing I could speak to someone to just help me know what to do, what I should be doing. My husband had a dream several weeks ago and we couldn't figure it out, just kind of chalked it up to being a creepy end-of-times dream. But last night I truly believe God showed me the meaning, and it has everything to do with me helping to guard his heart from the shadow of sin that is still there. He has decisions to make though, if he isn't open to receiving Light, then he isn't open to it and there is nothing else to be done from me.

 

Let me assure you all, that encounter struck enough fear in me to be cautious in my friendship and in my marriage. Despite what either choose to do, my eyes are to stay on the Lord.

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I am curious as to what the protocol would be if she were my sister. Would I still not have any contact with her?

 

 

Frankly, I don't know. We've never had that come up before. Although I could be wrong, I imagine that Joel would say that it doesn't matter who she is. But I also understand how impossible that could be.

 

We're really just looking at it from the perspective of him and how he is likely to be dealing with this. If your friend wasn't emotionally involved, I believe you. It's probably a lot easier on her if she wasn't.

 

We care about you guys and we just want to make sure you're seeing all the angles here, OK? :)

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These marriage calls are kicking my butt. I'm not used to being up so late, but I find them so helpful that I would hate to hang up. (Although after midnight last night I had to)

 

I'm struggling to let BlessedMan gain his own deductive reasoning skills. It gets frustrating when the answers to things are so obvious to me, yet he can't seem to figure them out. I don't think it would be so bad if he'd just continue to try and think about it. Instead, he just says "I don't know", "It's hopeless", "I can't figure it out". Really? I refuse to tell him anymore, but it makes things so much harder on me, and it has become a habit for me to just tell him the answer and what to do. I won't do it anymore because for how many years now have I been? It is not helping him to learn to do it on his own. He does things, a lot of times he is very quick to help, always has been. He just can't seem to get there on his own and after a while it becomes maddening! I know, I know, you already told me what to do here. But that doesn't change the fact that it is still maddening, so I feel the need to vent. (and pout  <_>

 

Just a funny example, our three year old picked up a cardboard movie case that I had ripped open and asked our six year old "Hey, what happened to the movie box?" Our six year old replies "Oh, momma must have done that because there was no other way to open it and get the movie out. I think the movie must have been glued inside the box." And she is right. That's what happened. Later that day, my husband and I are alone in the living room, and he picks up the same box and asks, "What happened to the movie box?" I found this far more humorous than frustrating, mostly because his (lack of)  reasoning skills was a point I had been trying to make for a few days (he demands examples of when and what he does), and God seems to find humor in giving me examples in somewhat ironic circumstances, usually when I've just been told how wrong I am because I can't come up with a solid example.  ;)

(BlessedMan: *cough* "Men do not do that!" :rotfl: )

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We have been here a month, or about that. But the "major" problems I choose to point out have been our struggle from the get go. He can't seem to do what I need him to, he can't seem to do what you guys tell him to, he gets mad when I can't pinpoint exactly what I need from him right then and there to tell him to do it. Even if I knew exactly what I needed right at that moment (and there are times I don't), if he chose to do it (and he doesn't always choose to do it) it feels like it is basically me comforting myself. Here's where we find out how different this is compared to everyone else, I guess. Am I to blame because I can't tell him what to do at every point? Are you guys going to tell me "how can you expect him to do something for you when you aren't completely sure what you want him to do anyway?" I WANT HIM TO TRY!

 

That's all I want, just a serious attempt. I told him shortly after he cheated that I was done holding on to us. I said" I feel like someone set my world on fire and I'm lost and dying in the smoke and can't get out. You set the fire, and I'm scared of you, but you need to carry me out of it." Most days though, I feel like he just sits down in the same burning room and says "Oh no, it is sure getting hot in here. We should probably get out, but I can't see; what should I do?" Meanwhile, I'm still dying in the corner. 

 

I feel like he doesn't love me enough to help me. That his only concern for our marriage is out of fear that he'd look bad to his family if we separated. He has never been held accountable for his actions, and I feel like he doesn't care enough to change.

 

I am quick to give him praise for doing something good. I tell him when he does something to hurt me. I choose my battles. I pick one big thing for every 3 or 4 things he does. When he chooses to cross a boundary, I follow through with a consequence. I listen when he apologizes and accept it, even if it isn't perfect.  I know we are new here, but these are things I've been doing for a lot longer than a month. It has only been in the past month that there are people to have my back with it though. (I'm very grateful; I can't even begin to express how much it helps having you all.)

 

We agreed that responding to a post doesn't necessarily count as updating. He told me the night before last that he was going to get on yesterday and ask what he could do to help me feel more connected to him. He didn't do it. He is mad at me for no longer responding to the same 4 complements and a hug, it's so inconsistent that maybe he thinks I wouldn't notice. He was supposed to read his book last night, but once I told him to just get away from me, that I was too mad to talk with him, he just went to bed (it is only a little after 9).

 

I haven't felt truly connected to him in a long, long time. I get scared, even when things start to go right, because all of the things he's done have been when things were going right. Like I've said, he is very good a doing what I ask him to, very good at saying the right things; we hit problems when I no longer tell him what to do and believe everything he says. I don't want to be married to a robot, someone I can just tell what to do and say and have it work. That would be like not being married at all. I want a husband, a true biblical husband. I know I don't necessarily have a right to expect that, as he was a nonbeliever when we got married, and even though he said otherwise, I knew the truth in my heart. But if he is one now, shouldn't I have the right to expect him to become that type of husband?

 

I want to act like a two year old and scream that I hate him, that he's stupid, and throw something at his enormous head. I want to forgive him for his faults and just let this go so we can have a peaceful house. I want him to fix this, but I have no faith in him that it'll happen. He has the free will to not fix this.

 

I am sorry this is so long. I'm not even sure what I'm asking with this post anymore. I'm just frustrated, and fed up, and hurt. I feel like I'm in a hopeless situation, and I have been here for so long now, I'm just tired of it.

Edited by amak0911
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