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Don't worry about tattling. Look at it this way. Some men have an addiction to alcohol. When their family members confront them or report on their activities, it's not tattling; it's holding them accountable. Your man happens to have an addiction to self-gratification and self-absorption. 

 

So when you confront him, or tell us what's going on, you're holding him accountable. You need our help because your love for him and your compassion for his struggles makes it hard for you to pin him to the wall. We don't have that same connection. We care about him, sure, but we also have no compunctions about pinning him to the wall if he needs it. (Also, we don't live in the same house with him. That makes it a lot easier for us. Yes, you need to learn to pin him, but that's a process, and you need to feel safe before you can confidently confront him. We get that, too!)

 

Or what if your man had diabetes. When you tell the doctor that he won't take his insulin or check his blood glucose and that he sneaks around to eat sweets, that's not tattling. That's giving the doctor the information he needs to help the patient. If the doctor thinks he's doing all those things and not showing progress, then the doctor might make a dangerous recommendation for further treatment. But when the doctor knows that the patient is non-compliant, he knows that the lack of progress isn't due to the treatment, and he can take a different approach to solving the problem.

 

When you tell us that he's not getting in the 20s (I mean, really, 7 whole compliments?! very underwhelming) or that he is SG several times a week, or that he procrastinates on your requests as if to prove you're not the boss of him (c'mon, Mr. Toddler, really?!), you're not tattling, You are giving the "relationship doctors" the information that they need to help heal the relationship.

 

If, like me, you grew up in an atmosphere of "don't give a bad report about someone" or "if you can't say something nice ....", then you (like me) have to unlearn it. Sure, there's a time to bite your tongue and say nothing. But there's also a time when you have to confront sin (and make no mistake, putting himself first in everything is sin, pure and simple) and tell the person, "Hey, that's not cool. You need to cut that out, or there will be consequences."

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OK, guys. I'm having one of those moments. You know, the ones where you are trying to practice what you've been taught but finding it incredibly difficult?

 

I gave A a task to add to his small list and take away from my giant one. He screwed up (not majorly, but enough to really put up a road block that will cost time we don't have) and we will now be in a tight spot in preparations for our trip (t-minus 11 hours and 30 minutes). I could rush in and save him. I could tell him exactly what he needs to do and suggest what we should do together in order to make up for lost time. I could offer take back some tasks. I could do all this. I want to do all this. I know I shouldn't do all this.

 

There is this crazy person in my head screaming at me that I'm not being very nice in leaving him to drown. There is another crazy person nodding in agreement with the first because we will all suffer somewhat if he can't fix this, and on top of that, she's got her arms crossed across her chest and lecturing, "I told you he couldn't handle this. Why would you relinquish the control when he so often can't pick it up?". And then there is my body in general that wants to rush in simply out of habit and fix it.

 

Tell me not to fix this for him, please. Please pray that God will help A come to what to do on his own and for God to grant me some inner peace and the ability to accept whatever A ends up doing with grace. 

 

Also, any prayers for our long road trip and safe travels are welcomed. [smilie=happy.gif]   Traveling in general makes nervous. ...and sick :puke:

(Sorry for the gross image, but who doesn't want to use the vomiting emoticon where they can? :P )

Edited by amak0911
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Do. Not. Rescue. Him.

 

I get the fact that you will all suffer somewhat if he screws up. That's what he's counting on. When passive guys do agree to do a task, they often do it poorly. Then, you are unlikely to ask them again.

 

Unless it is really a matter of safety or some other serious scenario, let him screw up. It's good for him.

 

Enjoy your trip ... and yes, a good puking emoticon can do wonders for your emotional state. ;)

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^^^^^^^ What Looney said.

Let me say it louder, though ... just because I don't have a cattle prod. ;-)

 

DO. NOT. RESCUE. HIM!

:excl: :excl: :excl: :excl: :excl: :excl: :excl: :excl: :excl:

 

Yes, it goes against all your instincts.

Yes, it is hard to watch him fail (and to live with the ramifications).

Yes, it makes you feel kind of mean.

 

BUT this man of yours will never learn the lesson if you rescue him.

He's like a baby. If mama is always picking the kid up and carrying him around, the kid never learns to balance, to step, to walk. To trust his abilities.

 

If/when the screw up gets so maddening you can't bear it, come and vent to us here. We can listen and love on you and help you stay strong.

 

(and yes. sometimes they do it with the hidden agenda that if they mess it up bad enough, next time you won't ask and then they don't have to exert themselves. Lazy sods.)

Edited by God's Phoenix
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What Looney and God's Phoenix said!   DON'T  DON'T  DON'T   fix it, smooth it or make it better. I used to do this NON-STOP! It is the very core of my co-dependency because we women think we are being loving when we are smothering and enabling. It was beautiful Julie O.Donnell who shrieked at me one night and woke me up!! This is so very important!

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Thank you, Ladies. I was OK at this, I guess. I let him begin these tasks on his own. I let him deal with them on his own, but eventually I did give in and help by taking on an extra task towards the end. I really don't feel like putting my kids' and my life in danger by him falling asleep behind the wheel because he only got 3 hours of sleep after being up for 20 and working in this weather (South Florida summer, yuck!) He really would have stayed up until it was all completed, and he has a history of falling asleep wherever, including in traffic and in the middle of conversations.  However, I did let him figure out what to do on his own. It wasn't until after the fact that I turned around and said, "Hey, this would have been a better way to handle this." I'm not so sure I should have even said that, but too late now, I guess. Now everyone is in bed, and I am up waiting until 3 so we can hit the road. 

 

He didn't answer me about the SG (which worries me some), but he is at 8 compliments, 4 kisses, and 2 hugs. We're up from yesterday. It's slow moving, but it's still progress.

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So there's improvement with the 20s ... that's good as long as it keeps improving. On the SG, I think you should push for an answer. He's not supposed to be using that particular means of comfort and stress-relief, and you are the only one who can hold him accountable.

 

I think you did fine. We generally say that you don't rescue unless life is in danger. As someone who lost a family member due to someone driving when they were too tired, I'm thinking you chose wisely. And I think it's also a good thing to give him the feedback of "this would have been a better way to handle ..."

 

Now, I'd like to know: was this problem because you asked him to do something and he procrastinated? Or did you just have way too much to get done in the time you had? I've seen from his thread that procrastinating is a serious manipulative tactic of his, so if I need to pull out my quarterstaff and commence a beat-down, I will. It's not as immediate or gratifying as Looney's cattle prod, but it's reasonably effective.

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He procrastinated. Thursday he took aprat the vacuum, HE had to put it back together that same night. He didn't, and I refused to do it (I'm not very good at it anyway and as I said, I had a lot to do already and I found it ridiculous that he couldn't do it himself). I left it to him, forcing the time to finish his task list to get tighter, and mine too because I couldn't vacuum until it was done. That then caused more lost time because the last few tasks were supposed to be done together so that they wouldn't take so long. I told him that HE needed to rework his list to save time, but refused to tell him how. Well, not until after the fact, as I've said :-)

 

I'm on my phone because there is no internet up here (we don't even have working phone service all the time), so probably not going to do long updates until we get home. We will be on the call tonight and Monday though.

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You did exactly right.

One of the rules in our house has always been "don't make work for others."

The way it works out is "if you mess it up, break it, drop it, get it out, or take it apart ... you clean it up, fix it, pick it up, put it back, or put it back together."

If he took the vacuum apart, then it's not your job to put it back together.

So you were right to refuse to do that job. It wasn't your responsibility.

 

I think you were also right not to tell him how to rework his list. If you tell him what to do and when and how to do it, that's being mom—I have to do that with my sons. I don't want to do it with a husband, who is supposed to be a grownup and capable of thinking for himself. If you just tell him what you need him to do, that's asking for him to share the load.

 

I'll wait until you are back from vacation to confront him on this procrastination thing. No point in clouding over your vacation with unpleasantness. But make no mistake, he's gonna hear about it from me. Unless you talk to him first and tell me it's covered. :-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

We are home, safe and... well, we're home safe. Came home to a tree missing from the front of my yard, a patio door still hanging but now in three pieces, and a pool pump that has been trying to run with a bad filter... Plus I spent six straight hours of the ten (12 after stopping so often for me) hour trip violently ill. Yay for the end of vacation.  <_>

 

Anyway, over all I would say it was a good time. There were good and bad points, naturally. I think not being on here and the phone calls really set us back. 

 

Sunday was kind of just a day to get our bearings, took the kids mini golfing at the club house. He was very low on the twenty's, but he started planning some things we could do.

 

Monday we dropped both kids at camp, and we went a few towns over so we could go to Walmart. Had a great lunch. He still didn't have anything planned. Twenty's hit about his average (5s and 6s). I told him I was hurt that he still couldn't hit the twenties.

 

Tuesday was by far my favorite day of the trip. We had a nice breakfast at a local diner before exploring waterfalls, which is something I love doing. He was pretty high on his twenty's. I'd say he hit near ten on the compliments, we snuggled a lot, lots of hugs and kisses, and he was always smiling when we couldn't touch. He asked when I wanted to go canoeing this week, I told him that I didn't. I felt really close to him, and just really happy.

 

Wednesday I mentioned that I'd like to see more waterfalls, so it was another waterfall day, this one on the resort property of where my family's cabin is, so it was mostly just a hang around day. It was fun though. We went down to the pool afterward, picnic lunch, etc. He asked if I wanted to go canoeing this week; I told him that I didn't really want to, and asked if he did. He said he didn't know and that we would see.

 

Putzed around the next day. I kept asking what he'd like to do, but he said he couldn't think of anything. We ate lunch at the lake, kind of enjoyed the silence that day camp brings for the last day until next year. He asked when I wanted to go canoeing; I told him I didn't want to. No twenties. 

 

The Fourth kept us at the cabin most of the day. No twenties again.The kids and I baked a red, white, and blue tie dye cake. We picked up some of NC's best BBQ (no, really, the guy has won awards). A and I kept bickering. He kept refusing to listen to anything, didn't want to hold conversations. What happened to the guy I had three days ago?? He turns into such a different person without any explanation, this in turn put me into a bad mood.

He asked when I wanted to go canoeing. I finally snapped that I DID NOT WANT TO GO CANOEING! He said fine like this was some big surprise, and I had never told him my feelings on canoeing before. I asked why he wasn't listening all week when I told him I didn't want to go.

He was supposed to be thinking of something to do for the evening. When he didn't, I suggested we drive down to the clubhouse for their all day celebration. We got into an argument on the way there, and he proceeded to drive like an ::xx  to try to make me sick (something he does regularly when we fight before we get into the car). The tents were already put away when we got there, so the kids were disappointed that there was no celebration.

I asked him what we should do, which seems logical since this is the guy that has supposedly been looking at the goings on in the surrounding area for a month. He decides we should just head back to the cabin. I say that no one really wants to do that. The kids have been looking forward to getting out. He swings the car around the mountain some more, then pulls over. He just kind of sits there, so I pull out my phone. There is no service. I put it back down, and after another minute or so, he goes to get his. I say calmly that there isn't service. He pulls it out anyway to check it (why can't he ever just believe me?).

Off we go again, he starts swinging around the mountain again. I ask what he's doing. He says he's looking for service. I ask how he's doing that when he's driving 50 around the turns. He yells at me, "YOU start looking for service!" I told him, "No, and don't you demand that I do anything  for you. You're a jerk." He pulls over again. I tell him that there were signs in every town, why don't we go to one of those. He says he didn't see any signs.  <_ is one stop light between four towns how do you miss a giant banner on every corner of that red surely he saw at least>that sign. "I don't read things."  :roll:  But obviously, that comment told him where to go. Anyway, he calmed down and started to be nice again. We didn't see the fireworks (it's after 9 before it gets dark up there!) but we went to a homemade candy shop, the kids ate chicken nuggets from Wendy's (something I think they were very greatful for because they hate BBQ) And we went home. He finally apologized just before we got into bed.

 

Saturday was a trip to Hendersonville again, but this time to Downtown with the kids. We went to a rock museum, their hands on children's museum, a 50's diner for lunch, then a doll store for our daughter. Then we went to WalMart (haha). My grandfather wanted a new TV because the playroom's broke the night before. We get it back and it's too small, so off we go again. It was bed time by the time we got home. 20s were average again. 

 

Sunday I did house work and packed. A and the kids hung around and watched TV (a luxury because we don't have TV in our house.) Average 20's again.

 

Monday was a day from Hell, but D was as helpful as one could be. He even hung around rest stops for a total of two hours and told me (once the vomiting stopped) that I was beautiful. Obviously, that was far from true, but still it was very welcoming to hear.

 

Nothing really yesterday, we both had rough days back in reality, a little less than average for the twenties: 3s and 4s. 

 

Hope everyone had a good holiday.  :)

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Nothing new going on, just wanted to do a quick update. He seems to be making an honest effort for his twenties again. Still not close to twenty, but better than the few days last week of none. No major arguments.

 

I'm still struggling to feel connected to him, but I'm starting to be able to pinpoint why a little better. I feel like he doesn't listen, but rather just tries to pacify me. He of course says he doesn't, that he always listens to what I am saying (if that's not a perfect example...) at least when he works on the hugs, kisses, smiles, complements I feel valued; it kind of makes the blow of his not hearing me a little better. I feel like if he'd get on and talk things through on here he'd have an easier time, but I am not going to point that out anymore than it has been.

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Unfortunately it stays there for a while sometimes because my immature side feels like it has to climb uphill in 6 feet of snow and hurricane force winds to reset it.

When you refuse to make that climb, I feel that I'm not worth it to you. Maybe that's me being overly sensitive, but that doesn't change that that's how I feel.

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Where did everyone go? I feel like the boards got quiet all of a sudden. lol

 

So, still baby stepping up that giant hill, no back slides yet. In fact, things have been pretty good. The 20s come and go, never getting to 10, but he's acknowledging my feelings a little more. In response to Friday (saying I felt that he was saying I wasn't worth the uphill battle to change his behaviors), he texted me

 

 

I read your newer post. I understand how that would make you feel that way and I don't think you're being overly sensitive. I think you're just going off of what you've been shown for so long. I'm sorry I make you feel that way. The truth is you are worth it. You're worth everything to me. And one day I'll have you sure of it. After I've finally done away with my childish self

 

That's one of the positives. He also has been pretty approachable too, so that's such a great change.

The only thing I can say negative would be that I feel there is something else, something he isn't saying to me. Like he's doing right, but not from the right place in his heart, not from God. Kind of like there is still this tiny thing sitting in the darkness that he simply can't or won't shine Light on. Honestly, it could just be me. I mean, every time things were going well, he was DOING right outwardly (like he has been) there was always something else inside of him that he hid: smoking, porn, cheating... Maybe I'm just paranoid, but what if I'm not, you know?

 

I also feel a lot of times he's lacking the communication, which adds to the feeling above, but I wonder if maybe that's just not something he sees as not important due to his personality. Where as, I need both verbal and physical communication/reassurance, he just needs the physical. (No clue if I'm making sense, my thoughts are going pretty fast right now.) Maybe that's part of the problem he has with the 20s, too... he wants to give me the physical 20s (hugs and kisses) because that's how he responds, but I need the whole deal to get the benefits. None of this is an excuse to him, he obviously needs to meet me where I'm at and give me what I need. I'm just trying to get my thoughts out. 

 

We are hoping to get on the call tonight, as we haven't been on since before we left.

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We really appreciate the fact that you are participating on the forum and on the phone calls! Hopefully you got to get on the call with Brian and Charlotte last night?

 

Kathy is doing a special call for women tomorrow. Text her at 386-334-7873 and she can let you know about it. Kathy runs a paid women's call on Wednesdays ($25 per month) but she occasionally does a free extra call like the one tomorrow to introduce what the calls are like.

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  • You are not to undervalue my feelings/self-worth/opinions etc

Not listening to my heart, not hearing what I'm saying. These things make me feel undervalued and unloved. Sometimes I swear he does things just to get a rise out of me, like he likes when I'm yelling. I start out very calm, although I'm firm in what I'm saying. Tonight, I told him how I was hurt that he didn't plan a date, like last week, he didn't plan a date. When he said he did and just forgot to tell me, I found it a little weird, but I said OK, who's getting the kids. When he said my father, and we'd be picking them up at 7:30. I told him that he obviously didn't plan because for one, he asked LATE THIS AFTERNOON when he's had all week, and we wouldn't be able to drop the kids off until 6:30 because we are both working this week, he needs a shower when he gets home, it's rush hour when we'd be leaving and it would take at least 30 minutes to get there, then we have to drive back home in the same traffic, pick up dinner, eat dinner and be back up there by 7:30? How is that putting thought into our date?? He said that he did put thought into it, he just didn't realize it wasn't logical. It's not his fault, that he did try and that's what counts. No that is not what counts. Kathy just commented on this today because he said the same thing to her and Joel the other night. There isn't TRY, there is DO or DO NOT. He kept trying to argue, but I would not hear it. He wouldn't hear me, and I wasn't going listen to how I'm wrong. My feelings are NOT wrong or right, they just are!

 

Per the boundary, he is not in this house until he can listen and stop making excuses for his actions, stop making himself look better while in turn making me and my feelings insignificant. He can sleep in his car, but I won't have that in my home anymore. Don't mistake me. I am upset that he didn't plan a date night like he was supposed to two weeks in a row, however, I am VERY, VERY hurt and upset  that he stood in front of me and tried to minimize how I felt.

 

He told me I should give him an A for effort. And I used to. That's why we've been together for nine years. I gave him an A for effort when he was still fantasizing about his lady friends, because he was TRYING not to. I gave him an A for effort when he was still looking at porn, because he was TRYING not to. You know where his 'A' got me? Crushed. Actually crushed. I felt like my chest imploded when my friend confirmed he cheated. If only there were warning signs leading up to that behavior.  :roll:

 

I have been debating on if I should post that last paragraph because I sound a little bitter. To be honest, I'm not sure where it really came from because I'm not bitter. I feel better after typing it though, so I guess I'm going to leave it.

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He told me I should give him an A for effort. And I used to. That's why we've been together for nine years. I gave him an A for effort when he was still fantasizing about his lady friends, because he was TRYING not to. I gave him an A for effort when he was still looking at porn, because he was TRYING not to. You know where his 'A' got me? Crushed. Actually crushed. I felt like my chest imploded when my friend confirmed he cheated. If only there were warning signs leading up to that behavior.

 

 

This doesn't look bitter at all. It looks like "real".  If a husband is really putting forth effort, his wife will know it. If he is not putting effort in and only "trying" - which means he is not doing what he is supposed to do and is making excuses.. or he IS doing what he is NOT supposed to do and making excuses... then his wife knows THAT too!  A healthy wife will not let him get away with an "a" for effort if he is really just making excuses for not doing. 

 

Hope that you got on the call with Mr. and Mrs. Romance tonight! (John and Susan). 

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No, we didn't. As I was posting he came home and waited patiently for me to hear his apology. It took awhile, but he finally admitted to doing what he was and gave a pretty good apology. Things were going much better until we went to bed. He with held affection I wanted/needed. When I pointed it out, he agreed that he knew I needed it, knew what he was doing wasn't right, and decided he'd rather go to sleep anyway. No matter how many ways I said he was hurting me, he didn't care.

 

He has a serious problem with doing this. As I've said before, he has admitted he gets some sick satisfaction out of making me come crying to him, begging for his affection. I refused to play that game last night though, and with God's comfort I eventually fell asleep myself. He is still down playing what he did though (and I have the texts to prove it, seeing as he always demands proof)

 

I don't understand why it's so hard for him. How is it hard to be nice to someone, especially when that someone is your wife?

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He has a serious problem with doing this. As I've said before, he has admitted he gets some sick satisfaction 

 

I don't understand why it's so hard for him. How is it hard to be nice to someone, especially when that someone is your wife?

 

so feel for you and understand where you are coming from.  That's exactly what my husband does - it's as if he gets a kick out of rejecting me as if it makes him feel big.  As if it would kill him to meet me where I'm at rather than trying to "teach me a lesson". 

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Try this: Instead of dealing with these things on your own, like his apology when he came home that took a while, try hashing that stuff out on the group call. For example, on Thursday, he could have hashed out the apology with John and Susan, making it so much easier for you - AND he would have had John coaching him on "now when you go to bed, remember, lots of oxytocin!" and give your wife a lot of loving, huggin and kissin!

 

We will be on the call at 10 pm tonight.  Remind us that him not giving you attention and affection at bedtime is an issue and we will carry that load for you of communicating that need to him.  

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It took a while for me to listen. I was trying to post and clean up. He was ready to apologize when he came in, I just needed to calm myself so I wouldn't overreact and could accept it graciously.

 

Even if they'd told him to give me affection, I honesly don't believe he would have. He withholds it as if to punish me for getting an apology. Its just something he's always done. (I would like to think I'm wrong here though)

 

We will be on at ten. Kathy said that you guys could help with his inconsistency in parenting (too hard on one, to soft on the other and just not having my back). Maybe if he hears how wrong it is to hurt me by refusing to give me hugs and kisses from you guys, it will sink in.

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Sorry that we were with the couple from Canada all night!  Sunday night, Brian and Charlotte will be great on these two subjects.. they start at nine pm our time..    and then we will be on Monday night at nine pm.

 

Hopefully a lot of things rang home for you two on the call Saturday night as you listened to us talk to the Canadian couple!

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We got home really late last night. We will be on tonight's though.

 

I told A I needed him to get on here and admit what he's been doing and what he's been struggling with. I told him what he's been doing isn't fair to me, or anyone really because it hurts our kids and keeps him from becoming the man God intends for him to be. He gave me the option of reading it over before he posted to see if he was twisting anything to make himself look just a little better. He was. but when I called him out on it, he fixed it without any hesitation.

 

I can't handle how things have been any longer. No more hiding in this grey area that he seems to. A lie is a lie, not doing what you're supposed to is falling to do what you were supposed to. Period. But that also means that when you tell the truth, you're doing exactly what you should be, when you do what you're supposed to, you're REALLY doing what you're supposed to. You're becoming Christ like. And that's where he's supposed to be.

 

Sorry for any strange typos, I'm on my phone and my text keyboard hates me.

Edited by amak0911
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