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We are having our floors redone, starting tomorrow, and we have to obviously have all of our furniture out of the first floor. I have a large, antique, upright piano, the really tall, heavy kind: dangerous and cumbersome to move.

 

I've been wanting to get it looked at and repaired for years. I got he name of a piano tuner and mover from a friend. I told Riversedge about him, and that he has a special tool to lift and move pianos, and that way I could have him tell me if the piano were worth repairing, and we wouldn't have to worry about moving it. Riversedge told me that he would call him, sometime last week.

 

Fast forward to last weekend. My sister and BIL were here, and on his way out, Riversedge asked my BIL to help him get the piano up on some dollies. They were obviously very cheap and poorly constructed. I ran in and said "No, Riversedge." He insisted he was going to move it, and I got out of the way. I had knick knacks and breakable things that I love on the top of the piano, and he totally disregarded them. When I said something, my BIL cleared the piano for me. Later, I found out that Riversedge had our SON, 10 years old, shoving dollies under this unstable piano, with it wobbling back and forth the whole time. It say, wobbly, on those dollies, until this morning. No warning to the kids to stay away from the obviously unstable piano, nothing.

 

This morning, I was supposed to go to the chiropractor, when I saw Riversedge manhandling the wobbly, precarious, massive piano into the living room, where our 5 year old daughter was sitting. I told him several different times that it was unsafe, and irresponsible, and I had my daughter leave the room in case it fell.

 

He persisted pushing it to the double doors, where he was forced to stop, because of the hardware of the doors. He said he wanted to go get our neighbor (who was not home) to help him lift, yes LIFT the piano over. I kept telling him that it was dangerous and stupid, and that this was why I wanted the piano tuner to come.

 

He kept telling me different things he would do, all of which were irresponsible and dangerous. Then he said he would leave it right there. I told him that I was not leaving that piano there and then going to the chiropractor, leaving him alone with the kid, whom he wouldn't watch, and have it fall on them and crush them. I told him I just wouldn't go to the chiropractor. I knew I couldn't trust him, and he was obviously angry with me for not bowing to his superior knowledge. I knew common sense was not going to win, because the piano was already up on the dollies. So then he said he would take the dollies out and leave it right there.

 

He wanted me to wait until he lifted it, then quickly yank one dolly, then another out from under it. I told him that I refused to get that close. So then he said he'd tie a rope around the dollies, and I could pull them out that way. So he came back with a stretchy piece of exercise equipment (???) and then treated me like I was crazy for suggesting an elastic band was probably not a wise choice. He grabbed something else. He lifted the first end of the piano, I pulled the dolly away, and as he hefted the weight of one end, it shifted, and the whole piano fell backwards on to him, crushing his lower half, and trapping him.

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Our little girl was right there. It could have been her. She saw it happen, heard her daddy screaming, saw him trapped, and my struggling to lift it off of him. Our son was upstairs, and heard the screaming, and came down. I told him to run across the road to our neighbors house to get help. I tried to get it off of Riversedge for several minutes. He finally was able to writhe his way out. I called 911, not knowing if he was bleeding internally, had broken bones. He was in excruciating pain. My kids were terrified. He determined that he could stand up on his own, and I canceled the ambulance. I yelled for my son, who was still frantically banging on my neighbor's door.

 

I drove all of us to the ER. Our son was sick to his stomach, crying, shaking. Our daughter was avoiding everyone. My sister eventually came to get them. X-rays came back clear. And then, the cherry on top of this abusive sundae, was Riversedge blaming me, pretending he didn't know I wanted the piano mover, and generally lying dodging, and trying to make it seem like it was my fault. He continued to do that after we got home. No amount of pain, no amount of trauma, no quarts of tears from his wife, no amount of terrified, traumatized children will stay this abuser from his Satan appointed task.

 

A little while after we'd been home, he came to me AGAIN saying that he wanted to move the piano with the neighbors help. With a boot on his foot. How's that for denial? I told him no. Absolutely no one is touching that piano unless it is a professional with the correct equipment.

His reply? "All you had to do was say it." Translation: "If you had only communicated your desires earlier, I would have been so very happy to acquiesce to your wishes, and all of the disrespect and arguing and rolling over you would never have happened, therefore, the entire situation is your fault, and I'm sorry that you're such an irrationally angry woman." I wanted to kick him in the crotch. Gaslighting much?

 

After that, I went outside so my kids wouldn't see me, and wept and wept. They found me anyway, poor darlings. A dear friend is driving an hour and a half to come sit with me for a little while. I told her I just need to be with somebody who loves me right now.

 

I've been crying since I walked out of the ER at lunch time. I'm too dehydrated to cry now.

 

I can't do it anymore. I can't. I've told him he can stay until the phone call tonight, and he has to get out. I'm hoping and praying so hard that Joel and Kathy will agree, and see how thin I'm worn. I'm at my breaking point. This is it.

 

I have done nothing towards packing the rest of the things and moving the other furniture out. I'll be doing that alone tonight, just me and my migraine. I don't even care. Anything is better than living this way.

 

Please pray for whatever is hidden in darkness to be brought to light the phone call tonight. Pray for Joel and Kathy to have wisdom and discernment, and for me to communicate well and have the strength I need.

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Yes and Amen!

 

I'm glad you are recording all of these things. It will be important to you to look back sometime and see how things really were. God bless you, dear girl! And yes, may whatever is hidden in darkness be revealed.

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Kathy showed me that by my not making things happen with the piano mover myself, I was defaulting to my abused state, and not coming from a position of strength. The control has been pervasive in our marriage, and financial despotism has been one of the worst areas. I communicate what I want and need, and after so many times of being denied and ignored, without realizing it, I give up, and the dysfunction wins. No more. Next time, I will insist on being heard as many times as it takes, and I'll take matters into my own strengthening hands.

 

Things came to a head, as I expected they would, after the infamous piano incident. It was abuse all that day, that night, the next day. Evil. I was looking into his face and listening to his words, and it was unadulterated evil.

 

Riversedge is calmer now after an interesting twist. I am observing for the time being, like a National Geographic photographer in the wild. The last 6 months + the last 12 years have been excruciating pain. I am physically exhausted, and emotionally spent. Spiritually filled, however, as Jesus has not left me.

 

It looks like another intensive for Riversedge, though I won't be able to get child care on such short notice. Joel and Kathy are discussing if they want Riversedge to come alone in May, or wait and have us come together in July. I'm just here, waiting, watching, interested.

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I'm beginning to feel the effects of the last few weeks from hell. *Literally* from hell. I feel sore all over. I can't be around Riversedge right now. I'm going to let myself have a break. If I don't, I won't be able to try again. These two weeks have possibly been the worst of our entire marriage, and that's quite an accomplishment.

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I have so much documented, thought definitely not most of it, and more is happening all the time. In looking over it, it seems excessive to post it all here? I don't know. The abuse is very bad right now. It doesn't make much sense as it is.

 

I'm switching back and forth between deep pain, and anger. I don't want to feel anymore if it means feeling like this. The kids and I are so happy and peaceful and loving when Riversedge is not home! We play, and talk and, have fun together. I want to live that way every day.

 

I know divorce would mean my going to work, and not homeschooling anymore, and less time. I'm chronically ill, which would make that life even more difficult, but I think many of my issues would resolve if I weren't under constant stress. But then the kids would be with him alone, and he is not a good dad. Then they wouldn't have anyone to advocate for them, and tell them the truth. It's so much to think about, and I am so weary. I know there is still the second intensive to come, but with Riversedge so unrepentant, I'm not sure 10 intensives would mean anything.

 

I am leaning on the Lord. I can't help but think about the logistics, and worry, and be excited to end the madness and finally begin to heal, but I am ready and willing to do whatever He asks. He is worthy of my trust. He loves me.

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Ophelia it's good to document whatever you have documented because it does several things... When we go back and read we can see more clearly what is really happening. We can see the growth we have made and we can remember the things that we wives have learned so well to minimize and sweep under the carpet!

 

It sounds like all the hard feelings you are having may be related to really seeing clearly just how abusive your life has been. Don't be afraid of these feelings or try not to have them. They are a sign that you are beginning to realize what is really important in life and what is true and right! Just don't let them control you and sweep you away into bitterness or vengeful attitudes or actions.

 

I am glad you are leaning on the Lord. I have just been through some of what you have been through in the last four years. I HATED that my daughter had to go to dad's house! She was sixteen when visitation started and it was HORRIBLE. He became so perverse and immoral and has broken every single court order. In the middle of it I was so upset and so angry! But God patiently and carefully led me through that season and my daughter is stronger, wiser and more knowledgeable about what makes a good man today! While I would never recommend having to let my children be around a bad father... God used it for good. Her heart was crushed when she realized that she really wasn't Daddy's girl and that he really only cared for himself... but some very wise people in our church have held her up in prayer and God used them to take up the pain and help her face truth! 

 

The bottom line is this: Whatever you choose, know that God does have you in the palm of His Hand and His redemption and grace are powerful beyond what we can think or imagine. No matter how bad one decision or the other seems, do your best to follow truth and righteousness and God will see to the rest! Part of truth and righteousness is allowing our husbands to experience the results of their choices. That's what this ministry is about!

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Thank you for the wise words. I'll post the notes I have now, and type up the more recent stuff later.

 

Wednesday morning, the day after the piano incident, I told Riversedge to stop talking to the kids about our marriage. He's been told before, and our son had told me the day before that Riversedge was at it again. So when I told Riversedge, again, that he is NOT EVER to emotionally incest our son by talking to him about our marriage and trying to form an alliance with him, he said that he thought our son may have overheard him that morning while he was talking on the phone about going to another intensive. Later, in the car, our son told me, without my asking, that Riversedge had talked to him directly about going to the intensive, before the phone call that Riversedge said he *might* have overhead, as well as after the phone call. I called him from the car and told him that he lied to me, he immediately lied again and I hung up.

 

He later tried to dodge the issue, but admitted it after our son told the truth in my presence. I told him to apologize to or son for lying about what happened, and for attempting to get our son in trouble in order to save himself. He made no move to apologize on his own.

 

Riversedge talked to a local pastor about our marriage without telling me, which he's promised he wouldn't do. He continually tries to gain allies and find people to tell his side of the story to, so they can see how sorry he is and how much he's trying to save his marriage, despite his angry vindictive wife, and baby him, and validate him. When I called him on it, he lied. I met that pastor for the first time yesterday, and I could tell he was suspicious of me because of Riversedge. Riversedge is intent on isolating me and destroying potential relationships, just like a true abuser.

 

He also told our closest neighbor about needing a place to stay. He had already been looking for a place to live before he was told to. So now my neighbor knows about our marriage trouble, or at least, she knows whatever Riversedge told her.

 

Later in that same conversation, he admitted that he has lied for years about his porn use before he met me. He still tried to minimize it and make it seem like what he had told me was mostly true, which it wasn't. He had told me that he only used porn for a few months and then quit. Instead, he used it for around 4 years. All of the call moderators are suspicious that he's still using porn because of his refusal to have sex. I don't know if he is or not, but I know I can't take his word for anything. That's scary, to be sexually intimate with someone that is a pathological liar.

 

He also has been smiling, laughing, and giving me thumbs up in an angry abusive way while I call him on his sin and express my pain. He told me that I said I don't care anymore, that nothing he does hurts me anymore. That is a lie. I asked him if he thought I was a cold hearted b***h, and he wouldn't say no. So he's denying everything I tell him, everything the call moderators tell him, everything he sees with his eyes, everything he reads in the books and the forums, and creating his own reality. A reality in which I am a cold hearted b***h, I am not in pain,so he can act however he wants, no matter how sinful.

 

I posted on the forum that I was in so much pain. It hit me hard, after the crazy week I had. That next morning, he was withdrawn and internal, barely looking at me or talking to me and not touching me. I suspect that he read what I said, and was punishing me for expressing my pain. He denies it, but he denies everything anyway. He acts that way any time I don't respond like a healed happy woman, and instead respond like the abused hurt damaged woman I am. So instead of healing me, he hides and protects himself from the consequences of his own sin.

 

He's not touching me when he walks in a room, not acknowledging me when I come home. He again didn't do the apology letter or the DVDs this week, and lied to Joel and told him that he did. He just "didn't remember". According to Riversedge, he is not an active participant in his life. Things just happen to him. That way, nothing can be his fault.

 

I told him on the way to church Sunday that it was taking everything in me to not scream when he touched me, and he immediately withdrew affection. I told him that I am trying my best to do what Joel and Kathy teach, even when it makes my skin crawl, and that if he thinks it won't be well received, he quits. That is so hurtful, that I am expending huge effort and enduring excruciating pain to work on this

marriage, and he's still bailing at the first sign of possible discomfort.

 

He was making fun of our son for carrying his Bible in its box. When I called him on it, he pushed back by saying that it's what we had discussed. ??? Because I generally make plans to make my kids feel bad for being individuals? Pushback.

 

He had asked me if I would baptize him. I said I didn't know and that I would need some time to think about it and study what the Bible says about baptism. He told me to take the time to do that. He said he really wanted me to do it. Yesterday, at church, he arranged to be baptized by the pastor, without telling me that's what he planned to do, and completely going back on what we had discussed. When I called him out on his lying to me, he again minimized, dodged, spun, and generally pushed back.

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Ophelia, I am glad you are continuing to post here.  I understand how painful it can be but you are helping others too.  I hear you pain as my wife had many similar concerns about me as a husband.  Thankfully we have come to a much better place from our low of December 2013. I am praying for you and your family that the Lord sustains you and gives you His joy and peace that passes all understanding.  You have a community here that wants to see you and your marriage and family thrive!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ71RWJhS_M

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We discussed the porn use more in depth on Monday. Riversedge attempted to apologize, but it came out as qualifying and justifying. In the past, he has told me that he wasn't self gratifying: he was. Then he told me it was for a certain period of time: it was longer. Then he said that he only thought of me while self gratifying (like that makes me feel better): and now, he admits he was self gratifying to pornographic images. In his Phariseeical belief system, it wasn't using porn, because he didn't have the magazine out while he was doing it, he only recalled the images from memory. He has treated me like his whore for most of our marriage, and when I told him no more and asked t be pursued, he withheld and instead self gratified to porn.

 

Do you see how he will never tell me the whole truth? Only as much as he feels he can justify. That last piece of information was not volunteered, but came as a result of my questioning him extensively. When I told him how disgusting and wicked porn is, that it's an industry of sex slavery, kidnapped children, exploited underage girls, women addicted to drugs and controlled by their addictions, he was quick to justify HIS porn as being SPECIAL porn in which no underage girls were used, only adult women. HIS porn is less sinful because he only exploits women, not children. It's sickening. As if he could possibly know that anyway.

 

He continues to argue with everything I say, whether I call him out on something, or have a preference about how I'd like to do something.

 

He still refuses to initiate sex most days. When I called him on that yesterday evening, he argued. I told him that he hadn't done any initiating, he didn't mention our having sex later, and did not touch me in a sexual way at all. He then tried to imitate as I was talking, because if I bring up sex, he tries to use that as a sign that I am the one initiating. Which is what he wants. He has admitted that he doesn't initiate, and tries to hold out until *I* will. After I called him on not initiating, he told me that he thought he was doing TOO much.

 

It broke my heart. We've been over and over this on phone calls. He pretend initiates in his head, and he lives in a delusion. I *know* when I'm being pursued. He is so passive and so controlling, and he literally believes that his thoughts are reality. I'm not allowed to have an opinion about my own (lack of) sex life. Joel has told him that it's pretty sad if your wife can't tell your pursuing her. But if you ask Riversedge, it's my fault for not getting it. Because I'm too dumb to understand when a man is pursuing me. He has an elaborate system of signals and signs and scenarios, that I know nothing of.

 

After he once again argued, what little fight I had left was drained out of me. I just sat there, and told him that he broke my heart. I told him I didn't have anything left, and please to go. He wouldn't, and instead kept talking at me, over and over. I got up my strength and told him to go again. He went upstairs and began texting me. I texted him back that he couldn't sleep at home and to not contact me anymore.

 

He took his sweet time about it. I could hear him upstairs, while I sat on the couch and cried into a pillow. Finally, he left.

 

I talked to Kathy today, and she has agreed that I can have a break. Riversedge is in our basement, and he is not allowed to talk to me about our marriage. No slimy anti-apologies, no pseudo repentance, no gaslighting. I don't have to let him touch me, or take part in dates or anything else.

 

Once I told him and he went to the basement, I felt sad, but also lighter, and I felt like singing while I cooked. After the kids and I ate, I fell asleep in the midst of their playing and loud talking and roughhousing, and I slept hard. I've been awake for maybe a half hour, and I'm too weak to move. My poor body. I have 4 chronic illnesses: Lyme, Epstein Barr, CMV, and Riversedge. Riversedge, by far, makes my body the sickest.

 

I'm grateful to have this week before our second intensive to rest. I couldn't get a sitter, so the kids are coming with us, and Riversedge will sit in on the intensive. I'm trying to devise a way that I can still either get in on the classes, or maybe stream it back to the hotel room.

 

Jesus is faithful to me. I wouldn't trade what I've learned of him through my marriage, even if I could. That's how truly good he is.

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Ophelia there is a place of peace that you can experience in the midst of this storm. That is where the pray, plan, play advice comes in. A place of accepting that right now Riversedge seems to want to live in his own self-manufactured reality. I think that continually pointing out his abuse and lies when it is clear that he doesn't really want to change- right now- is only serving to hurt you further. Sometimes actions speak much louder than words. Can you think of some actions- responses that you can have ready to do or offer when he lies or triangulates. Like just turning and walking out of the room? Without saying a word.

 

My ex was a master at gaining alliances for his victimization by me the angry "b---h."  I know this game well. Can you speak to your son and explain to him what healthy relationships look like.. perhaps teach him to have a line for his dad that goes like this: "Dad, I don't want to hear anything about you and Mom if Mom isn't here."

The reason this game works is because the people that are selected to be drawn into his little world usually have a need for love and validation themselves. They mistake the secrets and the attention as love or somehow it feeds their need to be a great counselor who is "impartial and fair." Whatever their unmet or unexpressed need is becomes the playing field for this evil. My ex seduced three different counselors that way!

 

In a godly and Biblical husband-wife relationship you ARE to point things out but when he is making it clear that he is refusing your words, then your choice becomes action...your action...  hence what this ministry teaches about divorcing, or going dark or ??? Because the truth is you can't change or control your husband and all the pointing out the truth in the world won't do anything. We are to continually offer truth because who knows at what point the light may come on and grace may kick in? Since I haven't followed your thread all the way and it seems as if you have been to one intensive that changes the landscape a bit. Whatever Joel and Kathy are advising, follow that.

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Our intensive was 6 months ago, and Riversedge was out of the house for a month in March.

 

I have thought about what you are saying, going "gray rock". I can definitely do that; it sounds more fun than what I'm currently doing.

 

Riveredge is a master at pretending he doesn't know anything. He doesn't know what he heard at the intensive, he doesn't know what anyone said on a phone call, he doesn't know anything I've said. So I've been video recording all interaction. That seems to frustrate him. He has even told me that he said something, and to go back and watch it on the video in order to prove it, and guess what? He never said the thing he was so convinced he said, and seemed confused about that.

 

I don't know what you do with that. I haven't gotten much input from Kathy on how to handle it. We've tried the code word; I've tried making him leave, I've tried walking out. I'm at my wit's end. For this week, at least, I've been cleared to only speak with him on group calls. Any consequence at all serves to make him angry and rebellious. I really believe that this is headed for divorce, and Riversedge will not be a guy that gets his wake up call from a divorce. He'll go fetal and victim and sorry for himself and angry at the world, and that will be that.

 

I'll bring this up in the next call with Kathy and see what she says. I'm hoping that Joel and Kathy will read this thread for our intensive. I think it would be helpful.

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I seem to be missing a post. Did I violate a rule or say something I shouldn't have? If so, I apologize, and if someone could help me out so I don't make the same mistake twice, I would appreciate it very much.

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I hate the way Riversedge plays the kids. It breaks my heart. He's attempting to gaslight me about the break we're on until intensive. Anytime there's a consequence for his action, he becomes rebellious. He tries to make it seem like everything is much more extreme than it is. I told him we were to keep things businesslike until the intensive: he tried to act like I'm being witchy and refusing to talk to him at all. "So I'm allowed to talk logistics with you?" He asks ridiculous questions on purpose, asking me for permission to do silly things as a way to make me seem like a dictator, and he is my poor oppressed victim. I went back to watch the video recording I made of that conversation to confirm, and sure enough, he's recreating history and manipulating. He has been home late both nights since, with not a word about where he was, and when he was coming home. He stopped spending any time with the kids that first day. It's the same thing that happened during our month of separation. He never even asked about them! He wasn't concerned, he didn't miss them, didn't even think about how anything was affecting them, only how it was affecting him.

 

When I called him out on the stuff with the kids, he pushed back, and I called him out on that, and then he left the room. He uses them when it is useful to his self image, and when they aren't useful, he discards them. He's a yo-yo dad. Up, down, up, down. They've never had a steady male presence in their lives.

 

It's funny how Riversedge brother does the same things with his kids, and Riversedge thinks it's awful, but it's okay for him to be an inconsistent user dad with his own children.

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 I'm at my wit's end. Ask yourself about this? At your wit's end over??? What are you expecting to happen? The reason I ask this is because you can be frustrated if you believe that by doing all the things you are doing you should see some change in Riversedge. Remember that you do the things that are suggested -not to change him- but to give space. protection and opportunity for you both. Real change will come as you lean into God and cultivate hearing His Word - not from a religious perspective of rules and commandments and thou shalts,  but from that of a Loving Heavenly Father, Who weeps with you and desires to bless you. With grace you can obtain healing with or without Riversedge's participation. You can gain strength, more clear perspective and peace.  This makes you stronger and then your husband's infantile ways of behaving can no longer overwhelm you. As you grow and heal Riversedge will find that your buttons can no longer be pushed. He then loses his power and has to begin to question what he is doing.

 

You, Ophelia, as the wife and the woman God made you to be can see the things Riversedge cannot see. IF he was humbly listening to you and valuing you- aka cherishing you- he would be immensely helped. But right now he is in defensive posture because you are asking for changes that require him to completely change his lifelong habits and perceptions of reality.  And really this is what the Christian walk is all about. We are to surrender our ways of thinking, seeing and feeling to the One who loves us perfectly and knows what is best for us. It's just sad that the Church has so badly maligned God's Words and put their legalistic spins on what a wife should or should not be doing!! This ministry is refreshing because they break down thee Word into its true meaning!

 

"He never said the thing he was so convinced he said, and seemed confused about that."

 

I just read this today in this book: "Loving Our Kids on Purpose" by Danny Silk:  In reference to the tapes we play in our heads that dictate our behavioral choices: "That tape can be sending us messages that don't actually correspond to reality. So we can believe something is true that feels true but it is really not true."

 

You are asking him to recognize those tapes and eliminate them as well as replace them with something new. That can take a long while sometimes. This is why it is so important for you to do whatever it takes to stay calm, loving and the one who keeps speaking truth without any hostility, bitterness irritation or... This is a BIG job for you as well. And you can only really do it with the help of sisters in the Lord who understand your battle and hold you up in prayer as you continuously seek God and His plan for redemption and possible restoration. I sucked at it when I worked this program.  I would love it if you could learn from my mistakes!

 

 Riversedge will not be a guy that gets his wake up call from a divorce. He'll go fetal and victim and sorry for himself and angry at the world, and that will be that. This is a very real possibility! BUT if you can gain strength to understand that you are seeing the truth correctly and realize that you have to patiently educate Riversedge out of his infantile or whiny brat responses- in other words you have to be the grown-up. But that doesn't mean you have to mommy him or enable him. I understand your anger and frustration. I know it well from having lived it so many years! But I believe in you and I believe in God in You!

 

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I seem to be missing a post. Did I violate a rule or say something I shouldn't have? If so, I apologize, and if someone could help me out so I don't make the same mistake twice, I would appreciate it very much.

 

Hi Ophelia, I am glad you continue to post. Sometimes when the forum goes down some recent posts may be lost, I don't believe you violated any rule.

 

 

 4evr has some good insight for you, please listen to hear experience as she has helped me a lot.

 

I would like to share another resource that helped me, since I have been in a similar place and mentality as to Riversedge, the book that was an eye-opener for me into my passive aggressive traits and how badly they damaged my wife, Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man: Coping with Hidden Aggression - From the Bedroom to the Boardroom by Scott Wetzler.  I continue to pray for you and the family.  God bless.

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I read that book several years ago. It was enlightening, to say the least! I think it was the first validation I had that there really was something wrong in our marriage.

 

What I'm expecting to happen is for Riversedge to make a move toward reconciling our marriage. An actual, legitimate move, not lip service, not manipulating, not lying. In other words, I'm waiting for something to respond to. I've been married to him a long time, and most of the time, I can tell in a minute whether he's lying through his teeth, or really trying and struggling. He's been lying through his teeth. Up to this point, he's had absolutely no intention of living a Christlike life, which he has admitted to me. That he has not believed that what Joel and Kathy teach applies to him. I knew it anyway. In the past 6 months, he hasn't made one definitive change. Not one.

 

I have no desire to force him to change: I also have no desire to stay in an abusive marriage with not even a token of good faith that he's trying. All of the call moderators say to him, "There's nothing else I can say. You just have to do it." And he doesn't. He leaves phone calls even more angry and rebellious. The two of us, together are stuck. I want to move forward with him; he doesn't. I can't make him. I don't *want* to make him! I have done what Joel and Kathy teach. When they correct, me I listen. I'm learning how to do it better every day. When Riversedge gives me an effort, I respond and reward, but those efforts are becoming fewer and farther between. The abuse is getting worse. Even Riversedge admits this, in moments of sanity. I haven't had a break from it in a long time. The stronger I get, the more he tries to push me back under. And that will always, always hurt, no matter how strong I become. He's my husband, and I can't be unaffected by him. Journaling here is my effort to document, and be real. Very real. Even when it's not pretty. For me, and also for him, as another way he can hear my heart, and help to heal it, if he wants.

 

I am ready for the next step. Joel and Kathy are having us come to another intensive, since Riversedge says that he doesn't know anything that was taught in our first intensive. I'm taking their counsel. I'm getting ready to try again. There are some issues I need counsel about, and I think face to face will make that easier.

 

Of course I'm hurt and angry! I'm finally in a place where I don't feel the need to deny or ignore my own pain. He lies with every breath. He smiles at me and laughs while I'm crying and upset. He uses our children as pawns. He sabotages us when things begin to go well. And worst of all, I'm still waiting for even a hope that he wants to be in a godly marriage with me. If he doesn't, I'm ready to move on. Just because he says he does, doesn't make it so. I'm digging in my heels, because I believe this is my last stand. I want it to be a good one, no matter the outcome.

 

Jesus and I are in a really good place. I'm stronger and closer to Him than I've ever been before. I am encouraged by that aspect of my life. He's shown himself to me in such precious ways. He gives me grace for my failures, and teaches me patiently, and forever loves me.

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I expect you have noticed Isaiah 54. I love verse 6 because it describes some of us SO well!

 

Isaiah 54:6 “For the Lord has called you,Like a wife who has been abandoned, grieved in spirit,And like a wife married in her youth when she is later rejected and scorned,”Says your God.

 

I'm glad you are receiving so much strength from the Lord. I pray this new intensive will have some lasting effect! God bless you, Ophelia!

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Hi Ophelia,

 

I really hope that going to the intensive again will open up the scales on Riversedge's eyes. I'm a man that lost my wife to an affair after she had had more than enough of me stringing her along. No, I don't recommend an affair at all - even my wife now regrets the affairs but absolutely does not regret leaving me. It took me almost four years to ultimately win my wife's heart back completely and I have no regrets. I was able to grow so much in Christ from having to pursue my wife and win her heart back and today we are in an outrageously happy marriage.

 

I jumped in here to encourage you to follow Joel and Kathy's advice. When and if they tell you it is time to kick him out, you need to follow their advice. If he truly loves you, he will get in touch with Joel and get involved in the men's calls and start the process of changing into a Christlike Man and your heart. Some men will not change unless it hurts more staying the same than it does to change and some men will not change when push comes to shove. But what I am hearing in your latest post is that you are near your breaking point. 

 

Feel free to read through my thread and my journey. You deserve to have a husband that loves and adores you - be strong - be brave - be diligent, God loves his girls and will keep you in the storm! :)

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  • 3 months later...

It's been several months since intensive number 2, and Joel and Kathy have removed Riversedge from the house. Since he continues to be manipulative and confusing on phone calls, I'll be back to journaling on the forum. He is in deep, unrepentant sin. I can say that without doubt. Before, perhaps it was an information issue, and after nearly a year of working with Joel and Kathy, and his refusing to do even the basics, he is in sin before God.

 

I'll journal what's been going on the last few months later. The current issue:

 

He still refuses to initiate sex. And apparently just hopes no one will notice. After 12 years of this, and 12 months of counseling, I asked him one night if he is gay. While it's quite an awful thing to have to ask someone, he likes to play word games and use semantics, and I knew that if I didn't ask him point blank, I may never know. Especially because of certain things he's said, and certain behaviors, I needed to know. I was very hurt by once again being defrauded, days after Kathy had dealt with him on the issue, which was days after John and Susan dealt with him on the issue. I would 1,000 times rather have a husband who pursues me, than ever have to ask that question.

 

Obviously, the question made him angry. In his anger, he felt he had the right to violently expose himself sexually to me in a grotesque way. I'll spare you the details.

 

Secondly, after I had been sick to my stomach as a result of the vile, vindictive sexual act, and I had locked the door, he unlocked the door and forced his way in.

 

Thirdly, he looked me dead in the eye, and made a suicide threat: "I can't live."

 

I sent him to a hotel. I should have called the police. Even terrified and in shock, I still didn't want to see him hauled off to jail, or a psych ward. Next time, I will.

 

 

Now that it's over, he is being manipulative, deceitful, and excusing his sin as somehow being my fault, that I misunderstood the whole incident, that I'm too stupid to know when I'm being threatened. I feel unsafe, because of what he did, but mostly because of how he qualifies and excuses it. Yes, I was hurt, and angry, and said angry things. He did as well. But in all of our years together, while I've been angry and hurt many times, he has never sexually assaulted me in such a degrading, vile way, and he has never broken into a locked room. He maintains that I should not have taken his breaking in as a threat, and he says that he didn't mean to say what he said about "I can't live". No matter hat he walks around crying all the time, and talking about how he thinks about killing himself, I was supposed to take his word that the phrase meant nothing, even after the sexual assault and the physical intimidation. He says that he didn't know that breaking into a locked room is a show of force. I'm not buying it. I've lived with him for 12 years, and I know when he's angry and abusive, and when he just makes a thoughtless mistake.

 

He doesn't even want to see the truth. He's curled up in his comfy delusion, that he's a good boy, who is just misunderstood by the evil witchy mommy lady. He's in very deep this time. He's even taken back things that he had done before, that he had admitted to and apologized for. I'm so thankful that he's gone, but heartbroken. This isn't what I've worked so hard for, not to mention all the call moderators. I'm mostly disturbed by how unwilling he is to accept responsibility for what he's done, and most importantly, that he did it out of abuse, not some misunderstanding. Without that, he can go on believing he has the right to terrify me, to terrorize me, to keep resisting the Holy Spirit, and Jesus' call to holiness. I am grieved over his rebellion, over his blindness. I'm grieved for my children, who are fatherless in most real senses. My oldest wants his dad out of the house; he's suffering from insomnia, anxiety, and heart racing. My younger hasn't even noticed he's gone, but has been very happy and huggy with me since.

 

Last night's call was mostly listening to him talk about himself. I think he mentioned me in a general way twice. Any attention is good, even negative attention for him. Kathy is keeping a close eye on him (rightfully so), and instead of seeing why that's necessary and being grieved over it, and truly repentant, he is eating up the added time and attention to feed his narcissism. I know, because I've lived like that for far too long. Goody! More time to talk about himself, and manipulate the information. I can hear it in his voice, and I can tell by the subjects he puts emphasis on, where his heart is.

 

There is so much more to say. It's more peaceful here now, but I am deeply sad, with a sadness I cannot shake. I didn't like who I was becoming around him. I feel much more myself now, and I'm thankful for that, but this was never what I wanted. 10 months out from our first intensive, I expected to be happy. Now, 3 months out from our second intensive, I'm separated from my husband, and I'm afraid of him.

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It's been several months since intensive number 2, and Joel and Kathy have removed Riversedge from the house. Since he continues to be manipulative and confusing on phone calls, I'll be back to journaling on the forum. He is in deep, unrepentant sin. I can say that without doubt. Before, perhaps it was an information issue, and after nearly a year of working with Joel and Kathy, and his refusing to do even the basics, he is in sin before God.

 

I'll journal what's been going on the last few months later. The current issue:

 

He still refuses to initiate sex. And apparently just hopes no one will notice. After 12 years of this, and 12 months of counseling, I asked him one night if he is gay. While it's quite an awful thing to have to ask someone, he likes to play word games and use semantics, and I knew that if I didn't ask him point blank, I may never know. Especially because of certain things he's said, and certain behaviors, I needed to know. I was very hurt by once again being defrauded, days after Kathy had dealt with him on the issue, which was days after John and Susan dealt with him on the issue. I would 1,000 times rather have a husband who pursues me, than ever have to ask that question.

 

Obviously, the question made him angry. In his anger, he felt he had the right to violently expose himself sexually to me in a grotesque way. I'll spare you the details.

 

Secondly, after I had been sick to my stomach as a result of the vile, vindictive sexual act, and I had locked the door, he unlocked the door and forced his way in.

 

Thirdly, he looked me dead in the eye, and made a suicide threat: "I can't live."

 

I sent him to a hotel. I should have called the police. Even terrified and in shock, I still didn't want to see him hauled off to jail, or a psych ward. Next time, I will.

 

 

Now that it's over, he is being manipulative, deceitful, and excusing his sin as somehow being my fault, that I misunderstood the whole incident, that I'm too stupid to know when I'm being threatened. I feel unsafe, because of what he did, but mostly because of how he qualifies and excuses it. Yes, I was hurt, and angry, and said angry things. He did as well. But in all of our years together, while I've been angry and hurt many times, he has never sexually assaulted me in such a degrading, vile way, and he has never broken into a locked room. He maintains that I should not have taken his breaking in as a threat, and he says that he didn't mean to say what he said about "I can't live". No matter hat he walks around crying all the time, and talking about how he thinks about killing himself, I was supposed to take his word that the phrase meant nothing, even after the sexual assault and the physical intimidation. He says that he didn't know that breaking into a locked room is a show of force. I'm not buying it. I've lived with him for 12 years, and I know when he's angry and abusive, and when he just makes a thoughtless mistake.

 

He doesn't even want to see the truth. He's curled up in his comfy delusion, that he's a good boy, who is just misunderstood by the evil witchy mommy lady. He's in very deep this time. He's even taken back things that he had done before, that he had admitted to and apologized for. I'm so thankful that he's gone, but heartbroken. This isn't what I've worked so hard for, not to mention all the call moderators. I'm mostly disturbed by how unwilling he is to accept responsibility for what he's done, and most importantly, that he did it out of abuse, not some misunderstanding. Without that, he can go on believing he has the right to terrify me, to terrorize me, to keep resisting the Holy Spirit, and Jesus' call to holiness. I am grieved over his rebellion, over his blindness. I'm grieved for my children, who are fatherless in most real senses. My oldest wants his dad out of the house; he's suffering from insomnia, anxiety, and heart racing. My younger hasn't even noticed he's gone, but has been very happy and huggy with me since.

 

Last night's call was mostly listening to him talk about himself. I think he mentioned me in a general way twice. Any attention is good, even negative attention for him. Kathy is keeping a close eye on him (rightfully so), and instead of seeing why that's necessary and being grieved over it, and truly repentant, he is eating up the added time and attention to feed his narcissism. I know, because I've lived like that for far too long. Goody! More time to talk about himself, and manipulate the information. I can hear it in his voice, and I can tell by the subjects he puts emphasis on, where his heart is.

 

There is so much more to say. It's more peaceful here now, but I am deeply sad, with a sadness I cannot shake. I didn't like who I was becoming around him. I feel much more myself now, and I'm thankful for that, but this was never what I wanted. 10 months out from our first intensive, I expected to be happy. Now, 3 months out from our second intensive, I'm separated from my husband, and I'm afraid of him.

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Hi Ophelia,

I heard you on the call Monday night, the 29th, I think it was. So sorry for you.

I say you did the right thing. You cannot live like you have been any longer. Be blessed!

 

I love the post 4evr wrote for you back in May. Please read it again slowly, especially the first section. The part about building yourself up in the Lord is so true!

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