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Flyboy, We have been texting a lot and I think it would be good to have some of my comments posted here so that they are easier to read, dwell on, and pray about. Some general thoughts I want to share... The communication around money is a step for Pink to see if she feels safe communicating with you. This is a huge issue that has been holding her back. Now that she appears to be opening up some communication, make sure she feels safe in every way. By the way, Hope went through the accounts and didn't see any outrageous spending. The feelings that you are struggling with here are the feelings that are most important for you to die to. A real heart change cannot occur until this happens. Pray for God to help you get this heart change. Please, use me to help you think of ways to bless Pink; to identify the things she may need from you, or what she's waiting to see. Be thinking WAY outside the box on how you can make something work rather than why it won't work. This was a big problem for me. Remember to think about the things that you have done that have landed you in this predicament. Place yourself in her shoes and really try to feel what she's feeling right now. Pray that the Lord would help you truly feel what she's feeling. I see you apologizing here on the forums. Continue to ask her for forgiveness for specific things where she ended up hurt emotionally or physically. I noticed on your post blame being put on her for missed opportunities to sell the truck due to waiting for her responses. This does not help your case. A better way to handle this area of communication, similar to what Mrs. Clean suggested, is like this... "Babe, I have a guy willing to make payments on the truck. It will stay on the property until paid off. Obviously this isn't the ideal situation but I know how much we need the money right now. I am going to tell him by 4 pm this evening that we have a deal unless I hear back from you before then. I want to make sure you have had an opportunity to voice your opinion. I love you and again am so sorry for putting us in this place. I am committed to you and to getting this figured out. I love you and miss you so much. Flyboy". Then I would suggest you send it to me to make sure she received your original text as a back up. If you are going to be showing the truck to someone, stay within the time frames already set by her. Then send her a text like, "Babe, I am planning on showing the truck at 4 pm, a time when I know you will be away from the house. Please let me know by 2 pm if this is going to be a problem, otherwise I plan on meeting them at 4pm." Again, end it with comments like that above. Make sure any communication shows blessings to her. Watch for opportunities to really reach out to her. You could offer "Since I will already be there close to the house, if you don't mind, I would love to be a blessing to you. I will mow the yard, feed the horses and my dog, and (whatever else you know would bless her). I know you will be back about 5:30. Anything I can get done and still be gone before you get back I will do. Please, let me know if you are not comfortable with this. I do not want to break any boundaries with you. If I don't hear from you I will assume you are ok with this." Make sure that in all contact you have with her, that she sees it as having been a blessing and that your focus is on her. Shoot me a text as well for verification that she received your text. Continue to press into the Lord and ask for help. Mrs. Clean has been giving you some really good advice with her posts. Use her as well to help you with ideas. It is clear she has a heart for the restoration of your marriage, as we all do. Hope this helps you understand a few things. Can't imagine trying to text all this, although I did start to... 631

We actually gave the books to my parents... they sat, unopened, for months. Finally we asked if we could give them to another couple that was really interested in improving their marriage. My mom never even opened them as she knew she was not going to change my dad, and she was not about to force him to change. That's not to say she didn't pray everyday he would become the husband God called him to be. She just already committed years ago that she would never leave, and she would never be able to change him. So she has lived with emotional abuse her entire marriage. My brother (and his wife) are so stuck on the husband being the almighty and authoritative leader, with the wife fully sumbitted to his every desire, that neither of them would be open to the books. I'd like to say the kids and I just spent the evening at the coast with my parents... Quick explanation here: Hope was at a woman's retreat on the coast and my parents happened to be at their cabin not too far to the South. I had to drop Hope off at her retreat because we had been out of town on a business trip and she was arriving late. My kids had been promised they could play on the beach but it was too late, dark, and rainy. So Hope and I agreed that perhaps staying with my parents, and letting them play on the beach first thing before heading out would be good. Another reason is I would have been driving through the middle of the night to get home. I have a very hard time driving late at night when I am exhausted. ... and my dad was awesome with the kids. They definitely tested him, especially my ADD/ADHD/and??? daughter. He never snapped at them, was easy going, used a soft voice, was not condemning, and was loving. I was ready to go into battle to defend my kids each time they "tested" him, but as it turns out I didn't need to. This was a first. He has been getting better lately. Hope suggested that perhaps I contact him and thank him for how well he was around the kids. That I had noticed in the past he was short and snappy with them, but that he was awesome this time. That perhaps this form of encouragement would be better than the opposite option, going after him and pointed out his bad attitude. What do you think? Will I get the same affect?

Yes, a seemingly strong one too. But he also appears to be very strong about the man being the head (in a ruler type of way). His wife is submissive and doesn't stand up for herself when he snaps at her.

One more question... About a month ago, I talked to my brother about coming together and talking to my dad about getting our mom a new washer/dryer (theirs are very old and they have plenty of money to replace them). (An incident I posted not too long ago on this thread.) My brother took great offense to this and told me it would be greatly disrespectful to confront the head of the house in such a way (holding him accountable to taking care of my mom). He thought instead we should go behind his back and purchase the washer/dryer for them. I backed up my reasons to confront in a nice way and he never replied back (the exchange was by email). Since then, he has been very distant. So I think at this point, he may not care if he can't visit with us. If that is the case, is there a different consequence, or should I just leave it as a statement without a consequence?

Thanks for the responses. Hope and I are talking about the best way to address some of these issues. Our main area of difficulty is finding a solution for dealing with my dad and my brother. An example for my dad is that he was rude to my son a few months back. I let him know but he didn't say a word and didn't make any move to apologize. Instead he just changed the subject. I would note that he is very passive aggressive and doesn't like anyone telling him what to do. My brother is more on the aggressive side. He snaps at them pretty much every time we visit. He has also talked down to me on many occasions and treated me like a child. We see my dad just about every week as they are our babysitters for "date night". My brother I see only a few times a year. What would be the best way to confront each of them on this issue? Should I mention consequences at the time of confrontation should they not follow what I am saying? And, what kind of consequences would be appropriate? Also, how should I handle the incident from a few years back where my dad was very rude to Hope? Hope and I continue to discuss our ideas but would really appreciate more advice. Thanks again!

Hi, I have some questions and looking for some expert opinions. In speaking with Hope last night, she mentioned there are some things she'd like me to address. One is that several years ago my dad was very rude to her about something. I did nothing to protect her. This has been a source of hurt ever since. Should I approach my dad about this incident? If so how should I do it? I want to bring healing to Hope in this area. I am also working on protecting my family, specifically my kids, from my brother and dad. They show no patience and are quite short with them. I have been much more aware and prepared to say something when they do it, but I am not always there at the time. We want our kids to love my brother and dad but that won't happen with their attitude. My dad has a lot of fun playing with my 2 boys but is harsher with my very energetic daughter. She is soooo loving and would just adore him if he softened up some. Any recommendations on how to handle this? Do I confront them now before something comes up, or just wait until it happens and address it then? I plan to apologize to my father-in-law about how I have treated his daughter the majority of our marriage. This is something I have no issues with doing, but just as the passive guy goes, I haven't done it yet. This is important to Hope, and I am going to get it done. Any advice on what should be said or covered would be great. I figure something like, I need to apologize to you Dad, about the way I have hurt your daughter throughout our marriage. You never really saw it, but I have severely hurt and damaged her. I portrayed myself to me something that I wasn't. I tricked her into marrying me, tricked all of you into thinking I was this great man of God, when the entire time I was emotionally abusing her in so many ways. I was not walking a Christian walk. I have not been the Christ like husband God called me to be. I have not lived with her in an understanding way. I have not loved, honored, cherished, or protected her. For that, I want to apologize and ask you for your forgiveness. I know you love Hope so much. As a dad myself, it would kill me to find out that a man treated my daughter the way that I treated yours. I am truly sorry and hope you can forgive me. Pertaining to my marriage right now, there is still a great deal of hurt I need to be doing a better job of bringing healing. Hope really needs flirting, physical attention and reassurance from me. She did share with me more about what she likes regarding love making. She has told me many things before, but I have a record of never listening. I feel good about what she has shared and it helps with my confidence. I just need to keep up the daily pursuit and initiating with flirting and follow through. I need to work on my flirting A LOT. I have never flirted with her and my ways are childish. Even when I think about how to do it, or how to express it in a text message/email, it still comes out childish. I am praying for heart felt guidance from the Lord in regards to this area. Honestly, I think the lack of follow through after I get home has resulted in my comments meaning nothing, so the seriousness of my words is disregarded. I understand this and need to follow through with my actions. Thank you for the help!

Thanks for the link LT. I read through it and it makes a lot of sense to me. It talking with Hope more, I am gaining a better understanding. There are a list of things that I am not doing. Initiating in ways that she needs to feel loved Flirting in a proactive/healthy way Actively pursuing Being a confident initiator When she's feeling hurt, I back off on the frequency of my calls/texts from work I think I have been a pretty good Butler...

OK, I am making a point to get back on the forums and post regularly. To post about how things are going and what I am reading or learning while doing my homework. I am going to lay this out in a list format to describe the feelings Hope has shared with me to better describe our situation. Hope, please add or edit anything I miss the mark on here. I want to provide the best detail I can, not only to help everyone here on the forums understand where we are at, but also for me to reread and absorb your feelings. Hope is feeling: - As though she is dying inside - Like she did 3 years ago when my porn addition first came out - Emotionally abused, worse than physical - Neglected sexually and emotionally - That she hates sexual intimacy - Unattractive - Unloved - Uncherished - Undesired - That she is not worth fighting for She mentioned that I: - Avoid conflict - Am a fake, I have only evolved my fakeness so that I can be more abusive - Reject her over and over in regards to love making - Never listen to what she has told me she doesn't like sexually - Don't think of new ways to please her sexually - Am heartless - Have no feelings or emotions - Am a responder in regards to flirting - Am not attracted to her - Am not living with her in an understanding way - Am refusing to follow God's commands for marriage - Am not a man of integrity. - Am selfish - Am impatient - Can call others on their mistreatment but don't recognize or admit my own faults I have read and reread many of the previous posts and they all apply. I think the biggest area I am struggling with is getting what I have learned to soak down deep into my heart. To no longer be only skin deep. When I read Ken Nairs books, Great Husband: Great Marriage, and JK, I get what they are saying and I want to be that husband for Hope. I know Joel mentioned not to focus on dying to my self, but rather just keep my focus on Hope. I find myself tongue tied or frozen when conflict comes up, not like the silent treatment I did before, but that I worry or focus too much on the words to say. That is selfishness. Looking for more help here in learning to truly make the heart change needed to love my wife.

Thanks for thinking of me with the post above Joyful50. Ok, this past Sunday night, I put Hope in a place of deep hurt. I broke a promise to her in regards to love making and not putting her first. These are some of the ways in which I believe she is feeling (Hope, please add anything else you may be feeling): - Devalued, unloved, uncherished, unhonored - Like a "slut", like all the other women I've used in my life - Like she's been trampled by me in order to make myself look good to her in-laws and people of my church. - That I am nothing but a fake - It's all about me (631) The feeling she has in regards to me being a fake is that none of what I have learned is actually coming from my heart. This from breaking the promise and how I handled things, or didn't handle things, after. I know what to do, or even what should be recommended to others in similar situations, but when it comes down to my own "tough situation", I don't get the job done. I come to her with apologies (or at times not even that) but nothing is truly from the heart. Sometimes I just freeze and don't address her hurt for fear of her reaction The past few weeks, things have had the appearance of being very good. She was praising me and bragging about me to others. Of course this lifted me up and made me excited about how far we've come. Seeing her happy makes me happy! But after hurting her Sunday night, she said she always felt like something was missing, like there was still an emptiness inside. I need help getting all this information down into my heart. I thought I was getting there but realize I have a ways to go. How do I make this true heartfelt connection. To understand and feel the hurts that I have caused Hope, past and present. Also how to keep from "freezing" when I need to me in "action". To be continually pushing forward and being proactive and providing the opportunity for healing. My entire life I have been a fake. Literally. And through almost all our marriage... I don't want to be a fake anymore, but want things to come from the heart. I know I need to pray everyday for what I have learned to move into my heart. But what else can I do? How do I repair this damage? Please help!

Thanks lovingjesus, I purchased the book "Sheet Music" and have found it to be very good. I will report more but both Hope and I see it is an excellent resource. Any body else have suggestions? Thanks!

Hope said I have been doing a fairly good job in most areas of our marriage and she is feeling that her emotional needs are being met for the most part. The area I continue to struggle tremendously in is initiating intimacy (love making). I keep going about it in the wrong way. When I think I am being more romantic or "setting the mood" with candles, the way I am going about it is still wrong. Hope explained she isn't quite sure what she needs from me in this way or exactly how I should go about it, but that I should be asking for help and reviewing resources to figure it out. She shared a little more with me last night about what she'd like after I messed up the initiation process, but then I screwed up by not trying again later. Really I need help. I looked over Robert Irwin's free E-book that Joel recommended to everyone and didn't really find the tips or ideas I need. He has other resources available, has anyone read them that would recommend them? What other resources can anyone recommend for me to find what will really make things work for her. I dropped the ball on this for not initiating enough to begin with, fearing rejection for not initiating correctly, and not looking for help to fix it. This has put Hope in a place where she is really hurting and doesn't want to deal with it any more. Please help! We are almost on our way to an OHM, but this is really putting the brakes on.

Hope is a little hurt this evening. She just mentioned to me before heading out to a church function that when initiating intimacy I am initiating with things that get me going through the day/evening and not her. We had a discussion this morning about how hard is for me to stop thinking about me and start thinking about her. It is such a simple concept that works. Yet so hard for me coming from such pride and selfishness. I can feel the change growing inside me and happening without me thinking about it at times. But other times, most in fact, I have to try hard to stop the "I/me" and replace it with "you". I love where things are headed with these changes but am praying for a faster death to myself. I feel like I can get focused on "areas" of the marriage to die to, and then the other areas I mess up on. Then turn to go after dying to those other areas, and the first area of focus begins to struggle. I want to die to my whole self and live for my wife in all ways and all things. I want to bring back that happy spirit she had when I first met her. I want to see her face glow with happiness. This is obviously an area that needs work on my part. Any suggestions?

Looney, That's a great word, I agree with you Pure in Heart! What a way to picture things! Thank you for bringing that to us. I will let Hope direct my aim in order to take Satan out of the picture and out of our marriage. I know he wants to take us out very badly, because we are on the offense and spreading this ministry to others in order to save their marriages too. He is NOT happy about the successes that this ministry is bringing about and is going to go after those, such as Hope and me, that are the "culprits" in a sense. Thanks again Looney!

Looney, That's a great word, I agree with you Pure in Heart! What a way to picture things! Thank you for bringing that to us. I will let Hope direct my aim in order to take Satan out of the picture and out of our marriage. I know he wants to take us out very badly, because we are on the offense and spreading this ministry to others in order to save their marriages too. He is NOT happy about the successes that this ministry is bringing about and is going to go after those, such as Hope and me, that are the "culprits" in a sense. Thanks again Looney!

Thank you Kimberly, I appreciate your post. It really helps me understand better exactly how it makes her feel when I defend. I have always struggled with just that, truly understanding how my actions make her feel or have made her feel. I will keep the flavor of ice cream anology in the back of my mind at all times. 631

Dory, Thanks for the response. As I read it and read it again, to let it soak in, it begins to make more and more sense. I appreciate it. I want to be like Jesus, not like Adam. I have to stop the defensiveness immediately and create a safe place for Hope. Again last night, I could tell she was hurt. I asked her to tell me about what and she said she didn't feel safe telling me. So I promised to create that safe place and that I would not get defensive. So what did I do, as soon as she said something, I was defensive. It is terrible. She called me on it immediately. (Excellent helpmeet.) I can't believe how easily I can defend and not even catch myself before doing it! It is frustrating to me, but extremely hurtful to Hope. It will stop. It has to stop. I will not continue to hurt her in this selfish way. My consequence was getting kicked out of the bedroom for the night. Consequences do help things sink in for sure. Lord I pray that you would change this way about me from the inside out. Change my heart to be always putting Hope's feelings first. Amen.

I will be on the call with Hope tonight. The crazy thing here is we are sharing so much of this ministry with others right now through our church, and then I'M the one that's not cutting it! I'm helping them and explaining to them what's happening in their marriage. I honestly shouldn't need someone spurring me back into line. I am absolutely embarrassed by my lack of initiation. I am looking forward to the call. Thanks Firewalker.

I want to grow and move forward in learning how to love my wife, and in actions in proving that I love her. How do I continue to grow and learn more and more everyday? How do I make sure I am not stalling or that I take a step backwards?

For Him For Her, Thanks for the note and the help on the call. Yes I need to be posting and can't believe it has been about a month since I last posted. I have to make this quick as I have a meeting to run to, but since I returned from the intensive, I have taken a step backward and not forward. I have not been flirting or initiating intimacy with my wife as I was prior to or during the intensive. This is hurting my wife and I must stop acting selfishly in this way. She told me I am in a cycle of when she begins to point something out to me that I am doing wrong or not doing, my first response is defensiveness. Then I immediately validate that she's right but with more of a harsh tone. Then go after an apology. I know how this is suppose to work, and I know I can do it right. So does she. Just need to spur myself back in line and meet her needs. Any how, just a quick update of where I am at.

Looking for some more help here. Today, I called Hope to tell her I was about to go into one of our labs to begin work on a project that required me to be in the presence of two other women. I wanted to reassure her that these women were not an issue for me in any way and that everything would be fine, but that she had a right to know. Background: This is a deadline project and I am very far behind. With the intensive coming up, an extended vacation after, and tech rep coverage required the remainder this week, I am in a huge time crunch to get it started. Today was the only day for me to get it rolling. As it is already, it may not get completed in time. Ok, so after my part on the men's call, when I was able to talk to Hope, I had about 15 minutes to get in there before the lab manager left. I really wanted to get things started before they all left for lunch in order to get this done today. I shared names with her and descriptions and really tried to let her know things would be fine. I let her know I was a little pressed for time and I began to reflect this some in my voice as time moved on. (I have been very behind and stressed at work now for some time.) When I realized she was getting frustrated with me and my reassurance hadn't worked, I quickly jumped back into the car to talk to her more. She suggested I talk to Joel and determine how I should handle things. So I got back on the men's call, waited till all other callers had talked, and asked Joel. He mentioned several things that would help reassure her. So I called her back and she wondered if I had spoken with Joel. I told her I had and that he mentioned all these ways to help reassure her. Then I started to in a sense go through the list, in an attempt to reassure her of how I would act in these ladies presence (apologize for creating a place of distrust, note that this is a big concern, promise to treat them very business like almost to the point of being standoffish, no social conversations, and how I knew this would be very nerve racking to Hope). It came across just as it was, that I was reading from a list. She was very hurt and frustrated with me and hung up. She shared some of her thoughts with me and needless to say, my reassurance did not work. I phoned her back to tell her I agreed that the way I shared with her did not come across as genuine and heart felt, but rather it sounds like like just words. That I should have done a better job. She told me she didn't want me to come home until I could really show her I loved her and be a man of more than just words, then hung up again. I guess my point now is that I just am not getting this right. I am starting to get frusted because I have this huge project and deadline. I have a manager asking for updates and has been for some time. I have job that requires projects be completed and on time. Even so, I told her I would not move forward with it until she felt reassured. So it is now on hold. Fortunately with my job working directly with females is very rare. But with this project there is no way around it. Please help me understand how to reassure her at this point, how to let her know that I love her dearly and want nothing more than to make her feel at ease with this project. That I am fully commited to her and that I feel terrible that I put her in this place of absolute distrust and frustration with her husband.

Hoping for Sunshine and Dory, Thanks for the responses! I just got back in from a night in the truck, wrote her an apology email, and now preparing to go make her a nice french toast breakfast that I had promised to make her Sunday morning, but didn't do. She's still asleep at this time. Yes, I have got to get to that consistency stage, immediately, and go after that life change. I do not want to just reflect an appearance of change, but rather I want to reflect a true change. A true change from the heart and not just the head. I completely understand what you two are saying. I hate that there are bumps in the road and know that I'm the only one that can smooth them over and keep them from happening in the first place. Still open to hearing from others for ways to help me improve this marriage. Even when I think things are going well, I need to be on this forum posting and checking in that I am doing all I can to heal this marriage.

You may have seen a couple positive statements on Hope's page. Yes, things have been going generally pretty well, still struggling here and there but feeling as though we were really getting closer to one another, bonding, having more fun, etc. Especially this evening we were really having a good time together. Well, that all crashed late tonight. I'm on the 90 media fast and when walking in from outside, opened the door and glanced up and saw the tv (nothing bad btw), and quickly looked away. (Hope had been watching tv while I was outside doing chores but had stepped into another room.) I had promised to tell Hope if this happened. Well, guess she saw it happen and questioned me later if I had been watching the tv. I said I was doing really good and not watching it. Then she confronted me and said she'd seen me glance up at it. So, while I wasn't "watching" it, I had glanced at it and not volunteered to tell Hope. Then when asked I snuck around the question as I wasn't actually "watching" it, just happened to see it. I was caught in a lie. I have had a hard time associating an accidental glance at the tv with "more serious" problems. The main problem is me not telling her when I already told her I would. This has happened before and she asked me about it and I told her I had glanced up at "Little House on the Prairie", but not offered it without her asking. Now, Hope has pulled away, is very hurt, and doesn't trust anything again. She feels so stupid for saying anything nice about me, as though that is what she gets for opening up a little. If I haven't come clean about glancing at the tv, what else am I hiding? What other ways does she have to word her questions? Very very valid thoughts. I have offered apologies and tried to validate her feelings. I know there needs to be consequences so I volunteered to go sleep out in the truck tonight. Unfortunately I seem to need this type of consequence to straighten me out and help keep me from doing things again. I feel like I really hate the tv, but really it isn't the tv that's the problem, it's me. I am really looking for help on this. How can I help Hope know and really feel just how sorry I am? How can I heal her from this wound that is once again opened? How do I show her I really do love her after this? I am so stupid for hurting her once again, especially after she stepped out and said some nice things about me. Sometimes I feel like the devil is playing tricks on me and determined to find a way to destroy this marriage. Please help! (dory fixed. thanks for posting right after wards so that i could re-paste what you wrote on her ID into the post that you sent immediately afterward and then delete the one with her ID. Without that, I could not have helped.)

Thanks Looney for the forward. This really hits home with me right now. I have really been struggling this past week meeting some very specific needs of Hope. Perhaps keeping a book such as this will help me become a different man, rather than the same man with a different set of behaviors. I also just realized with Hope's help that I am defending the man I want to be, rather than the man that I really am. Thanks again!

Just completed my reservation deposit for the intensive. I know it is going to be good. I really need help driving things from my head into my heart, and as I hear on the calls, the intensive will really help me in this area. Actually, there are SO many areas I need help driving into my heart I don't know where to start...

Excellent advice to all! Thank you! I don't have time to say much as I am late for a trip today, but wanted to see what was posted. I appreciate all your tips and look forward to more ideas. As well, I look forward to sharing how things are progressing with my initiating these things with Hope!