Purple

God bless you and keep you today with all that mess. Been there and done that. Praying H's reaction is Christlike. Regardless, it's a huge undertaking and how he behaves will only make it more manageable or worse. Praying for fortitude for you today!

God bless you and keep you today with all that mess. Been there and done that. Praying H's reaction is Christlike. Regardless, it's a huge undertaking and how he behaves will only make it more manageable or worse. Praying for fortitude for you today!

God bless you and keep you today with all that mess. Been there and done that. Praying H's reaction is Christlike. Regardless, it's a huge undertaking and how he behaves will only make it more manageable or worse. Praying for fortitude for you today!

Many people praying for you GS. Hope you have a restful, peaceful night.

I was reading the other replies and was struck by a thought as I read Firewalker's. She is spot on about that man. Stop thinking about him. As hard as this is to do in one's real life, you may have to let her go...and she may have to truly experience life on life's terms to see that this isn't what she wanted all along. If she wants to be with someone else...or even just not to be with you, let her. You didn't mention anything physical between the two of you this time...but I believe she is constantly giving out messages of "come hither" or "I can't stand you, go away." She is keeping you in a state of confusion. God's way will keep you in peace and discernment. When she has to face the life that she wants, that in itself will determine for her what she truly wants. Another man is not going to want to jump into a situation where he's responsible for paying for 4 kids and a woman. But that's not on the table as of now. Another man may not be so forth-coming with money and time to help her go see her children and possibly rent a hotel room while she does that. But that's not on the table now. Being a weekend parent is not reality. I am not trying to slander her for leaving the kids. I believe for any woman that was once truly engaged in her children to leave them...even to go to school and be away during the week...it shows the state of her emotional being. It just isn't wired into a Christian woman. As we keep encouraging you, focus on being Christlike in your actions with her...AND that does not mean being a doormat. We would never characterize Jesus as being a doormat. You are the son of God Almighty and He's given you the tools to be the proper leader of your home. Her actions are leading to the destruction of her soul. I have not been physical with another man than my husband. I did allow conversations and thought processes that I am still struggling to overcome. There has been a cost to me for my actions. Her physical actions are misleading her mind and soul. As Firewalker said, you can recover your relationship even if you divorce. Awesome viewpoint. Man, you are walking out a storm. Hear the encouragement from all of us that it is good for you to come here and vent. I hope that you feel us lifting you up and seeing your growth as well as pointing some things out.

I don't have much time to post. But wanted you to know you were heard. I'll write up my thoughts here...so take them for what they are...mine. Your story is pretty much completely different from anyone else's on here...including men...because you have the children. She has left. It perplexes me some how she's doing things. And it puts looking at this ministry and how each situation is told the same thing in a quandry...with kid issues. Not the man being Christlike. I know you're not perfect. I know you're still trying. It seems that you are taking the proper responsibility for your role in the marriage troubles. From what you write, it seems pretty clear that she is wanting to call all the shots...have a perfect little world where people think the separation of you two while she's away at school caused the marital divorce...not what did. She is dating. That is separation. she is actively pursuing a relationship...whether he's taking her up on it or not. As I said earlier, it is a lie that she is perpetuating. If that picture is on her FAcebook, people know. The secret is out. I've encouraged you to parent together...and still do to the extent it is possible. You are the daily caregiver. And to be Christlike...is not to lie. Tigger's post really struck a chord with me...especially because you are a minister...you do not need to participate in this any longer. Whether she has signed the papers or not...it is in the works. Your children have a right to know the truth from their parents. At this point, if it were me...I would tell her that I couldn't live with lying to the kids anymore...and she could decide with me what to tell them...or you'll be telling them alone. Again, that is if it were me. You are right that she is trying to do this with the least amount of pain...her pain. She doesn't want the children to know the truth. She wants to be an angel in their eyes...pointing out what daddy is doing wrong in caring for them (even if you are doing things wrong, which we all do), being the "fun" time parent instead of the day to day. She wants them to see her in a glory light that she's pursuing her education, while admirable, not the other things she's doing. I don't believe her other activities are the kids business...those things will come to light on their own. U- the way things are going, she is not going to magically come home one day. You can still believe for your marriage...take responsibility, AND be the man of your home. Having the kids as much as you do, you need some of those credits as well. She is establishing a home away from those kids where she's pursuing other interests than her education. Salsa dancing, that man, him moving her, etc. You are letting her come to the house to see the kids, etc...you are not denying her access to them. You can change that joint account as well...leaving her the appropriate amount of money as Christ would...but protecting the interests of your children and your credit. Christ was a prudent man. No woman wants a doormat. You are letting her make all the decisions in the interest of winning her back and taking responsibility for what you've done. However, your children are being caught in the middle. I just do not believe it is a wise move to continue lying to them. Your wife does not want to be with you. She does not want to even discuss reconciliation. She has moved away from her children. She is allowing things on Facebook to tell the world her status. Believe what she is telling you. That is not in contrast to loving her as Christ does. Things could still turn around. I do not believe they will if she continues living a double-life lying to all those around her. Again, it would be a different story if she were raising her children on a daily basis providing their primary home. That is not the case. She wants a life that you provide monetary wise...and to lie and say that she's raising her kids, which she is not. You are a minister. Not only as the head of the home are you called to more responsibility...but you carry Christ's word to others. I truly believe you will experience a freedom in your soul...once honesty is prevailing. Not telling the world of her infidelity...ultimately, that is between you, she, and Christ. But saying...my marriage is struggling, we are separated. I did not want the separation. However, I am responsible. Once the truth comes out you can start seeing where things lie then. Your wife isn't doing herself any favors or experiencing what the real world is...what she wants...lying to people in her life. You are not showing your children what a marriage is/isn't. Again, my opinion. I just want you to know you are prayed for. People here do care. You are supported.

I just backed up a few posts & got a fast picture of what you're going thru. First, I will add you to my prayer list. Truly. Woman of God, I was raised by a single mother left in the lurch by her husband of 20 yrs. We struggled. We made it. God always provided. Many times it wasn't what I wanted...but we never went without, just sometimes without what this teenager wanted...haha I will tell you...that thru those bad times...I don't get scared over the recent economic turn. I know I can make it. I pinched pennies and scrapped enough together to go to college...and I'm all the better for the upbringing I had. Most of my friends who would have had a cushy ride thru college...didn't even get associates degrees and now live off their parents still and we're approaching 40! That's not my life. I tell you this just to know as a Mama...I know you grieve for where you are. I know you want to provide for these girls as best you can. You are and they see it. God will continue to see you thru. And character is being developed in them...even if it's a hard thing for your mother's heart to watch. God bless you and keep you. I will be praying!

U- I read that you are struggling with the friendship part. You two are the parents of these children. Parents need to the best of their ability parent together...whether in the home or out. You will experience less turmoil in the lives of your children if you are together. This is not always possible as divorce, separation, and "other"lives occur. But it should be strived for your kids. For whatever reason, she sure complains about what you say about this man and not wanting her family to know...but to allow that picture? Well, that's her business. And it's telling her business. I wouldn't question her or even comment about it. Firewalker wrote you an amazing post several back...the one you quoted about not settling for crumbs....print that out! Read it several times a day if needed. I wouldn't think you need to share the details or the whys with the kids...they will see soon enough if her behavior continues. But as adults, we teach our kids how to be adults. How to handle stress. How to be parents. That is why so many of us struggle. In my own life, my mother was so completely devastated that my dad finally left her she stayed in bed for just about 2 years. I could hear her boo-hooing at night. Not seeing her hurt and grieve...but boo-hooing. I parented her. NOT WHAT I SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING. I knew too many details because of all the secrecy and I listened to their private conversations at night...trying to figure out what was happening? Truly, if at any point someone had reassured me that yes, things were going sour b/w the two, but they would both always be there for me....and then shown me that....my young adulthood wouldn't have been so hard. We teach our children about perseverance, grief, hard economic times, character, etc. with how we rely on Christ during these times. You very well may not be best friends with her. No one asks that of you. Get yourself where you should be and she'll see the changes in you. I think she already is. She just has allowed herself to get to a place that she should have stood up for herself a long time ago. Even if it meant leaving then before having an affair and becoming so out of it that she's moved away from her children and is only seeing them on weekends. I am not putting her down...just stating the obvious. When a Christian woman takes the steps to do what she's doing, she is in a bad way spiritually. Let her be there. Jesus will be her Shepherd. He is also yours. Don't torture yourself by looking at her Facebook page. Take yourself out of the equation of being in instances where you know these things. They distract from what you need to be doing. I know all too well that deep down we want to know...but again, it distracts us from Jesus and His work. Be kind to yourself in knowing that nothing good is going to come of you knowing all these details. In fact, I sincerely wonder if she isn't wanting to see what you'll do so she can blame you for your reaction? Something to ponder.

I just read your post. Usually I try to put thought into my responses. I don't have much time today, but wanted to to chime in. In my opinion (and we know I am offering it as an opinion, not as HELPER), it is past time that you and your wife talked to your children honestly about what is happening. I can't recall exactly the ages of your children...but I know that are well old enough to recognize what is happening on their own. You and your wife both are deceiving your children now. It is okay to say...we are separated. I don't know if we'll divorce. Take the opportunity to say...I haven't been what I should have been to your mother. While I wasn't doing what I should have as a husband and leader of our home, Mom had many hurts that built up. Do not place blame. Tell your children that no matter what you are both still their parents. You will both parent them together. You have been showing them that. Talk about their behavior. Tell them this changes nothing from how you've been doing things. They will still be responsible for their actions. I don't believe that God wants divorce. I have struggled with this myself as I've made decisions in my own marriage. My mother said it best when she told me...God doesn't "want" divorce. God will forgive divorce. (she is a dyed in the wool believer in until death you part.) If you do divorce, it is not wrong to stay friends with your wife for your children. In my opinion, no matter the circumstance, grown adults that could not make it work...no matter who is to "blame" or who was "abusive"....must make every effort to parent their children. This forum and this world are FULL of people that are walking wounded and it began in their childhood homes. When we have children, that is also a commitment we as Christians are making to Christ that we will parent them in the way of the Lord. We will model Christ in our behavior. Your children are acting worse when the two of you are together...because they know something is wrong. They feel the tension. There are lies in the air and have been for a long, long time. They know more than you think they know. I was one of those children in my home growing up and I can promise you that. There are always circumstances when a divorce occurs, that one or both parents become so entrenched in their own issues that they don't stay intent on their parenting. It seems that she is asking you to make sure you both love and parent your children. It also appears that the time away is giving her the peace that her soul is craving. With an atmosphere of peace, healing begins. We can get quiet and hear His still small voice. We have time for reflection. And again, the healing begins. I so hear that you don't want a divorce. Not to throw gas on a burning fire, I can almost promise you that she hurt for years in your marriage not wanting a divorce either. She looked up one day and didn't know who she was, what happened to her life, and where to go next. She hasn't made quality decisions. That we can see. No one is denying that. But hear me, that achieving peace is a good thing. God knows your heart. He hears your hurt. He knows the fruit of your desire for your marriage. He also knows hers. He also has the power to change it all in one heartbeat. Continue to look above, focus on being Christlike in every interaction with her. And make a decision together with her to be honest with your kids. Details are unimportant. Not that they won't want to know. Here is your best chance to be Christlike in your parenting. It isn't about blame. It's about responsibility. They deserve to have the truth confirmed. The lies are going to affect them much worse than the truth.

I'm not a helper here. Just another hurting wife reaching out to a fellow lady in need. I pray peace for you today. I pray that you find community here where you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not alone. I pray that you will feel our Savior's hand guiding you each day and giving you that reason to press on. I pray peace over the baby in your womb. Keep coming here. Don't give up. No matter what -- there is help here no matter where your marriage is at....no matter what path it takes. You are supported. You are prayed for here.

I know I haven't been updating very much. Things are much improving at my home with hubs behavior. His mood is even...mostly cheerful. If tired or down, he's not been gripey. If he's remotely snappy, I say back to him what he's said...saying it like a question...and say nothing else...just look at him. He's stopped the behavior without grumbling or retorting with a sarcastic remark. No rolling of the eyes. Just changes Today, to make a long story short: he was to pick up our daughter from the bus stop and take her to an activity. I've been doing the pickup and know what time it takes and what time to get home. I had laid out clothes for her to change into in the car because there was no time to come home before the activity. I drove him yesterday to show him pickup for the bus and then where the activity was. I said 2-3 times in front of him the clothes need to go with you as she'll have to change in the car. I called him approx 30 min before pickup time...all is well. He remembers, etc. I come home after work since he's doing bus pickup and activity duty...I'm piddling around the house...AND COME UPON THE CLOTHES!! I call his cell...ask him about it...and he tells me he'll just bring her home to change. I ask...well, do you think there's going to be time for that. He tells me he'll have plenty of time. 15 min before the activity begins I call and ask if the bus has even arrived yet. He said just barely. So I said, I will meet you at the activity for her to change in the van. He said, yeah, I guess we better do that. He tells me in an even voice...I'm sorry. I was wrong. It registers with me...and I appreciate it...but I am furious It's not that he forgot...it is that this is the dance in our house. Mom gets things together and gets the plan. (I have no problem with this) Then if Dad is going to help, I relay the plan. Dad says ok. Can even repeat the plan. Then when time comes to implement said plan...Dad changes things. Because he knows more than I do. When we met at the activity, he opened the door to the van, and again calmly apologized. I was cordial and tended to getting daughter changed. As she was leaving the van, she turns to me, touches my face...and says, Mama just how mad are you at Daddy? I was stunned. I asked her what she had said...and then I told her that Daddy would be okay and not to worry about it. He took her in to the activity and I left to come home. Once he arrived home, he calmly found me and again apologized. I told him that I heard him. I accepted it. And that I appreciated it. I also told him that my anger was because of this repeated behavior not over this one incident. He tells me that I make him feel stupid or that I call him stupid. I told him...it's not me. You treat me like I'm stupid when we go over the plan...you agree to it...then you change things. I explained that if I am going to handle all the details, and since I did pickup all last week and knew what the timetable for that was and getting home...could I not be believed that there would not be time? Had I not still been on top of things, she would have been VERY late to first day of this activity and when we were to be oriented into what to do each time. HE AGAIN STAYED CALM. APOLOGIZED AGAIN. None of this is lost on me. But I'm shaking inside. So incredibly frustrated. He handled it all well. I explained that the way his family describes his father's behavior is exactly what he does to me...he acts like he is God and knows more than anyone else. He calmly asked me to give him some other examples so he would know. I explained that I was relaying a family story to him the other day when he abruptly cut me off to finish the story. He had to prove that he knew what I was talking about and knew more of it than I did. He did not know about the phone call and help requested from me on that day...he just thought he knew more than I did. ( I did speak up for myself that day...and said, excuse me? I was talking and was not finished. Am I allowed to finish my sentence since it isn't what you are talking about? To his credit again, he took a deep breath and let me finish.) After I told him that I heard him. Accepted his apology. And appreciated it but was still frustrated...I asked him where he was on the books. He picked it up and showed me...and then I asked him what he'd learned from his reading today. He calmly looked at me and said that he had made many, many mistakes in our marriage and he had alot of changing to do. He asked me if I wanted to quiz him over what he'd read and verify that he wasn't lying. I told him that no I did not. That when I've asked him to do something I should be given the respect that he do it (reading the books) and that I was no longer going to be in the mother role. I explained that I am well aware I am the caretaker by nature...and I've been taking care of various family members in my life since I was a child. That I now expect him to be in this family as a Man...with responsibilities as such. He is not hearing well. We discussed this. I know it is a vanity thing for all people as they get older (he's 60) to not want to address this. As I've written before, we've had a million health issues, mainly his severe depression lately, that we have had to deal with in the last few years. I told him that denying there was a problem was abusive to me...because how long did I have to put up with a man that was answering me incorrectly because he couldn't hear me...or pretending he heard me and causing communication issues...because he didn't want to admit there was a problem? I had rehearsed in my mind earlier today the list (his teeth, and a hernia problem previously....not to mention the incessant intimacy issue) in case I needed to talk about them...but he agreed with me. I told him that I wasn't going to make the phone calls to insurance as to where he could go. This is part of being the man. Shouldering his responsibilities and not asking me to do all this for him when he's capable. Just to report as well: there have been money issues with us in the past in that we have helped out his older children several times...and he's taken very small amounts of money out of our savings acct without ever telling me. Like $20 several times instead of getting it out of the checking acct. It frustrates me because there is no need to get it out of savings. I've always known about any money he gave to his kids. Not always agreed but always known. It is an issue with him that I now make more money than he. It is because we get an annual cost of living raise where I work. I've worked there for many, many years and it adds up over time where I make more than he does. He does not help with the bills. He does not even look at the bills, bank statement, etc. But pulls the poor him routine (in the past). Anyway, that's a short version of background info. This year, I did not use my bonus money at work for our vacations with his kids. We used our general monthly money. I have read several threads here where the women were not feeling secure with their money and also spoke to a wonderful, older Christian woman whose advice I find to be very sound. I felt like I wanted to open a savings acct in my name only with this money and then put this year's raise in that acct. I did finally. I told him that if we need the money to live that it is accessible for that--by me. Otherwise, it is money that will be there for my daughter and myself if something happens to him. He took it all in stride (the account goes to him if I die...but he has no access now). He did not complain and actually agreed with me. I didn't ask him...I just filled him in on my plans for it. We later discussed some other financial matters that have been weighing very heavy on my mind and emotions especially since we had our daughter. We made tentative plans to build our savings account so it is an appropriate emergency fund and there in case something happens to him. In the past several years, we've had several close situations to us where the wife was left widowed and did not have funds available to pay for everything. We've worked side-by-side with these situations yet I have not been able to get him to help me make arrangements, including a will, for our family. The will was something I asked him to take care of right prior to our adopting our daughter. We have discussed with the appropriate family members who we would want to raise our daughter in the event we both pass...but haven't gotten the will written. It is an issue in our case...not just so things would be easier for me...but because he has 3 grown children as well. I know what things he wants the boys to have...but things don't always go as you want after a death. I feel that he should make sure our daughter and I are taken of...instead of just knowing that I will make sure we make it (thru God's provision.) The will is in progress now. We still have many, many hurdles ahead of us. And my heart has not healed...and is very shattered. But I cannot deny that he is making HUGE steps. I told him several times that I see his growth. and we're getting there. I told him I do not expect him to grovel...and will not require that of him...he just has to realize that he has treated me horribly and expected too much of me. It is going to take me some time to heal. I've come off by myself to tend to bills...and to get this post written and he's been very respectful. I honestly am finding in my case...that sometimes, if I address the issue calmly and often without much but repeating what he's said or what has happened...and just looking at him quizzically...he is owning up to it, addressing it, and apologizing for it...without any defensiveness or my blowing up. I still feel very shaky inside. But man, this is progress. And nothing but God's divine intervention. I'm scared to believe that things could get better. I'm so hurt I don't want to open myself up for him to zap me again. I am opening up. It is slow. I'm not being bitter...I'm getting better. And I think so are we as a couple.

Sounds like a beautiful, heart-touching baptism. Truly made it more meaningful. You are forgiven, precious Kay. We beat ourselves up more than Jesus ever would. We ask forgiveness and He, with his unending grace and mercy, gives it to us...it is we, the sinful, who continue to doubt, self-degradate, and buy into Satan's lies that we are still less than. I think this is why to a large degree so many of us allow ourselves to be abused in our marriages...and even why the men continue in their behavior...because we believe the lies. We don't take such the simple step of putting our lives into His hands and letting Him guide our boats to the shore. What a testament you are. Your husband and marriage too. What a hard journey. A beautiful story of redemption that is still being written. Thank you for including it for those of us to read and look forward to....

Today is a special day. Baptism. I was 7 yrs old & still remember my moment. Ah, tho, while there was sin to wash away....it would be nothing like there is today to wash away. Much more meaningful in some ways to experience today as a woman, & man, that have lived life and come to find the Savior. I pray you feel the true washing Blood of the Lamb and know a renewal like none other. many of us will be with you in spirit...and the lives you are each walking are a testimony for your families whether they partipate in presence or not. This is a sacred moment b/w you and sweet Jesus...and don't let the absence of any particular people damper your day. This experience too shows why we are in need of His unfailing Presence..b/cause those in the world will fail us and at times reject us..but the Savior never dos. He meets us where we arre...and calls us to do the same. So much admiration and love for you today. I'm praying it is a truly blessed day.

Just wanted to pop in to say...I get it. Mine is doing oh so much better on his attitude, his mouth, and several other things...but this area, nada. And truly, in his case, I think it is something he just really doesn't get or even desire...and it's hurtful to him to have to try to be intimate. There isn't something else going on...obviously, there is an issue from his past that has caused this area to shut down. I just continue praying. I'm at peace with it today. Some days I'm not. I pray today that you know it isn't about you...it most certainly does affect you...but you are not the cause of it! With all the love and care in the world!

I wish I had the answer...I just don't understand it myself. Why it takes me getting to the point of fury, rage, extreme hurt, and confusion...(and acting the idiot on my part) before he can decide to hear that something matters. Simply saying...arrested development. Mommy issues...while correct, doesn't heal my heart...or start the never ending issues this kind of behavior breeds. Will say a prayer for you today. Praying for just a moment's peace for you today. They don't understand that is all our heart's are crying for...to be heard and experience peace in our marriage.

I know we are all still praying for your family. It is good you come here where other believers can pray for you. May God show you the steps for you feet to take!

Just a thank you thought today. You're willingness to work this ministry, reach out to so many of us newcomers, and still share your journey blesses me on a daily basis. While becoming less frequent, I still have pretty much daily thoughts that I don't know if we'll make it. I don't know if I can do this. And I think of you and the words of hope and healing you have spoken into my life....and I think, hang on, you can do this. This too will pass. (Mine is making progress. It's just to that point of being a true helpmeet and having to spell some things out for him...and my flesh doesn't want to. But I can, I know I can.) Thanks, today! So sorry you endured such a season of unhappiness. Grateful that I am blessed today through your journey.

Just wanted to throw in support. Praying for you as you make decisions. Whatever those decisions turn out to be. I agree with Kay and Scarlett not to be angry with your parents. You have the right to choose whatever you need to do as an adult. They do as well. Just on the basis of what's been written, it doesn't mean they are making decisions for you...as it is their house. We have 2 rent houses..and I can tell you that it is much harder to get someone out than it is to find someone good to rent it in the first place. I know we are looking forward to seeing your husband progress...but as Kay said...who knows at this point. It's his to prove. And if he doesn't follow thru and is IN the house, what are your parents to do then? It puts them in the middle that what action do they take if he refuses to move? If he doesn't hold up to the lease? It seems they fixed it up for their daughter and her children who were in a bind...and now the situation may or may not change. And yes...you are married and need to give this a try. No one's taking away the sacredness of that commitment. I would just caution you not to put them in a place of being the bad guy either for saying no. If you feel the door is now closed on using that house, God will provide something else. My two cents: by reading your posts and the account of what your options are...I think Kay's suggestions are very good ones. If he is truly willing to work this program and get his marriage right...there is not a worry as to him finding someone else. He will make it right. If this house is the only option for you and your kids, then he'll also need to recognize right now that his family is in a predicament that he created. And with that comes things that are uneasy and uncomfortable at times...but we all have to continue to grow up and get thru it. I am encouraged in my own life reading your journey. and again, praying for your family and your decisions during this tough time.!

So...details aren't important and I'm too tired and feeling poorly to be detailed. Tonight, there has been several issues that had to be addressed. I managed to keep a clean mouth, I stated that I knew I was being somewhat short since I was extremely exhausted and feeling bad on top of that: but that what I was saying was truth even though it made him uncomfortable. HE NEVER ARGUED!!!! He didn't much like it, but NEVER EVEN ROLLED HIS EYES This is huge! Such progress. I haven't been on him either about the books. I've known he had stopped reading...and felt that I needed to wait until an issue came up to bring it up. (May not be what some what recommend...but it is what I knew to be right this time) I went and got the books and said , show me where you are. He showed me, hadn't read much, and then preceded to lie that he was about to read some tonight. He was getting in bed when he said this? I just looked him...quizzically. He corrected himself and asked if I thought he was lying. I just looked at him again...not sarcastically or mean but again said nothing. Man, the Lord is teaching me that it is better in these moments to say nothing...and he knows he's caught. Who would have thought? I walked away. And thought: no fight. We handled this. No rage. No sarcasm. No placating me on his part. Really feel like we both handled this uncomfortableness well. Good to see progress. Good to know that when the heavy issues are coming...there are some specifics I need healing from...that I know we can handle them.

Praying for your family. I have read that Joel & Kathy are aware of the situation. My only thought is: with police involvement, DYFS investigations, lawyers for charges, etc. , at this point...tensions need to settle down before you lose your children. Once things are "pinned" on either parent...it is harder and harder to prove that you did not do anything wrong. I can so relate to losing it...because if people were around when I've done it...there's no telling what they'd think with one fraction of the story that led me to it. You deserve better than this and so do your children. Praying covering over you and your family. God bless you for being willing to give him any chance whatsoever after the things you've beent through. God knows you're willing heart...and He will protect you. So glad you found this ministry! No matter how things turn out!

Just wanted to stop in and say: I read your entire thread today. My heart truly grieves for your situation. It is good you take responsibility for your wife's pain. I will also say as a wife that has suffered much pain inflicted upon me by my husband: we have a choice to become bitter. Venting and explosions are one thing; venom on a daily basis in front of your children is something else. I was a child that was so very saddened by my parents' divorce. I will tell you now...that I am more affected in my daily life by the horrors seen while they were still married and fighting...than I ever was by the divorce itself or the aftermath. Children learn conflict resolution--good skills or bad skills--at the feet of their parents first. If you have a daughter, she will learn to be criticial of even a good husband...just as she is being seen now. If you have a son, he will look for a woman like his mother. The blood of Jesus can stop this cycle. No matter what transpires...please pray to break these chains over the lives of your children. My heart is saddened to see a man try so willingly...and a woman that is not interested in change. I pray that the Lord speak loudly to you over whatever path He wants you to take. So that you feel an undeniable peace to stay or to leave. Go in love, Dear Brother in Christ.

Praying for you, lady. It takes us all covering the others. God knows what your going through...and He'll be there for it all!

Thanks for the update. It does give us all a little above the baseline to pray for you...and even offer suggestions. I saw you mentioned how I described your wife...in a dark and desolate place. I still see that in my spirit very clearly. She's depressed, she's lost her hope, and she's scared. You cannot rescue her. You are to be her husband...and to listen to her. Do what she will let you do and be consistent in respecting her boundaries. Her Heavenly Father has her in His reach...we are never far from His reach, it is us who do not look His way. I believe the steps she is taking, even if they bring more depression her way, will lead her into His arms one way or the other. As I've been reading the boards, I read another man's story that spoke to me for you. It is: chavo-al-46. It does not appear that he has updated in quite awhile...but the suggestions given to him really spoke to me about your situation. They may seem harsh to take...but definitely give you good words for a situation where the woman is saying goodbye, leave me alone, yet you are trying to follow this ministry. It isn't along thread at all... I would ask you to encourage her family not to abandon her. You have mentioned before that she has stated they didn't support her...and this was before they knew of your marital issues. Whether in the "right" or "wrong" ... our Jesus does not leave us when we sin...and as parents and family, we can speak truth in love...and then let Jesus be in the business of the "Savior"....we do not have to reject our loved ones when they are not walking right. Again, we can speak truth...and let the Holy Spirit be the one to continue saving them. The more abandoned she feels...and especially the more she feels you've treated her badly for years and no one noticed or cared (including you, sadly) and now...she is saying I can't take it anymore...and everyone is rushing to your defense. I know from my own life that her speech is probably not very friendly and her words about you as the death and destruction are coming out probably shocks those that had no clue there was anything wrong. This is a testament to how well your wife has hidden her hurts and anger...and now it is oozing out of her...and isn't pretty. Explain this to your family and again, encourage them not to project their feelings onto her. You and she should work thru these issues...you do not need them to take sides. Glad you're still working this ministry. Keep it up!

I mis-typed...it's Life From Death's thread...not Led By Fire. Excuse me for misdirecting there.

U-I don't have time to quote GMS from another thread...but I strongly encourage you to go check out in the Men's forum a thread called Led by Fire. GMS wrote an amazing post on there about listening to your wife and how you could do that even if separated or when/as she's telling you not to do the things you are. As I read your brief post above, it is very clear from things your wife says that this man/affair/relationship is not the cause of your problems (we knew this already) and regardless of the sin, she isn't willing to admit her behavior is a sin. AND...as we've been telling you...that relationship doesn't matter. It's pretty clear that she's ready to move on (at least for now, we'll see what is in store)....and I hope you hear that unless you "let" her do this, you don't stand a chance. And I realize, reconcilation may not ever happen. And I know you're grieving. It is so very sad what we do to one another in marriage. It is sad that it takes the woman completely shutting down and backing away before most men wake up to the facts....and it's sad that as women we let ourselves get to that place of total devastation, loss of feeling, and hopelessness (and hopefully not bitterness) and for some the feeling that is safer to divorce than to try this for one more minute. Reality is...even in the best of circumstances, you are going to mess up while learning new behaviors in this relationship. She is in such a dry, dead place I don't think she has the energy to hold you to that fire. The post I mentioned above...from GMS...is just spot on regarding this situation. Also, I've spent time today for myself reading the STicky sections in the Men's forum and in the women's. I've gained alot of information...and really encourage you to study there for a bit. You are covered in prayer...and even without that...you are in the hands of your Creator. When you feel the emotional tides starting to overtake you, stop and take a breath. Remember Whose you are. Remember you can get thru this. Remember who is counting on you. No matter what happens in your marriage...those children deserve the best of both of you...I know you are hurting immensely. Your wife is too or she wouldn't be in this place. Ask the Lord to help your eyes see her as He does. Ask him to carry some of the pain so it is bearable. Ask Him to guide your footsteps as the leader of your family. Praying still...