adultry with a family member

[michelle]

My husband has had what I believe to be at least the start of an emotional affair with my sister-in-law(my brothers wife), until I confronted him about it. He denied it of course, and will not talk about it. Therefore I have to come to my own conclusions.

[dory]

Have you, and/or he, read J&K's books? What does he think of them? Particularly in the area of you speaking your heart: If you didn't have cause for concern, you probably wouldn't have given his relationship with her a second thought. You are doing well in listening to your heart and speaking up. He needs to start listening to your heart as well.

[michelle]

Yes we are reading the books and started watching the dvd's. I have seen some changes that I believe are real, but I have been afraid to aproach the "subject" because I'm afraid to mess things up. I have to see her tomorrow at thanksgiving so I guess I'll see how real these changes are. I'm not sure how much I can stand watching them talk to each other as if nothings happened. It makes me sick. I had to see her at a birthday party for my grandmother not to long ago and when he was talking to her he didn't take his eyes off her. I tried to say something every so often as if to say "I am sitting here", they would acknowledge me, but quickly get back to thier conversation. If I told my husband this he would say that wasn't right,and justify his talking to her as "I was just trying to be nice". Well frankly, right now I don't want him to be nice. I know that probably sounds terrible, but it's hard watching them knowing that they have some possible connection. I also know that she and my brother are having problems right now(well they really always have), and that makes me more nervous because I know that she will be seeking a connection with someone. Well I am just praying that the Lord will give me strength and a forgiving heart towards her(and him).

[dory]

I pray instead that the Lord gives you the strength to speak your heart to hubby who should have YOUR heart as his first priority. God gave you to him as a helpmeet. AS such he needs to learn to listen to your intuition. Man and woman were created in God's image. He put intuition in Eve for a reason - because he forgot to put it in Adam. They complement each other. It is not good for man to be alone because Adam needs Eve's "gifts" to help him meet God again in the end. Don't hide your gift under a basket. Let'em have it! He needs to hear your heart. Hopefully he's grown up enough to love you first, bring you assurance, and put your heartfelt worries at ease. If he doesn't and instead he puts you down or makes you feel bad for asking, then he's got a future and great potential with Joel and Kathy!

[JoelandKathy]

Here are the initial letters from Michelle to us, to give more details:

 

 

Hi Joel and Kathy,

 

Thank you so much for your willingness and obedience to share your life with so many. I am a "PK" (preachers kid) and grew up under all of that husband is king of the world legalistic garbage. I was labeled as a teenager as "rebellious" because I asked questions. It just didn't make any sense to me that "God is Love" and yet expected females to be less than dirt. I couldn,t understand why God "Who created us" and gave us feelings, would then tell us not to use them. God also gave women a brain and then doesn't want us to use it??? Just didn't make sense! Because of my questions I had a long road ahead. I am now a 41 year old women with a husband and 3 wonderful blessings from God. I can so much relate to your story Kathy(this will make my husband furious if he sees this, he is one of those who doesn't think he's as bad as that guy and that this is unfair) and it gives me encouragement to see the results in your life. I don't want to go into "our life" right now, because I somehow have to make it through Thanksgiving this week without totally losing it. I have both of your books and the dvd set. Excellent! I still watch in amazement as Kathy will say something that happened "and it was Joel's fault" and he doesn't defend himself or get mad. I will admit that I have wondered if it was real and you two don't go home and "get into it" because it really wasn't his fault.? All I know is that God never changes, His Word hasn't changed, and that is what gives me Hope. I do have one question, I have read many of the testimonies on your website, your books(almost finished with the second one), and all of the adultry issues are with "friends" "coworkers" etc. what about if its someone in your family, what then?

 

A hopeful,yet fearful wife,

Michelle

 

=================================

 

HI Denise, no, we don't fight when we get home! Smile.

 

Give us more detail on the the situation. We still see Kathy's close relative twice a year. That was incest, of course. Was this your sister with your husband or something? Basically, there must be hundreds of miles put between two people who committed adultery. Just the price to pay to ever have a healed marriage.

 

Blessings!

 

Joel and Kathy

 

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Dear Joel and Kathy,

 

It was my sister-in-law(my brothers wife). It was emotional adultry as far as I know, of course my husband totally denies it. I really don't know what happened because I had left for the summer(last year) or I should say part of the summer(5 weeks). I had went to my mother-in-laws(we are very close) to visit and I knew when I went that I wasn't sure if I'd be back. My husband refused to discuss our issues and refused to own any blame for anything. I had to get away for my sanity and for myself physically. I have PTSD, fibromyalgia,chronic fatigue, ADD just to mention a few. My husband has always been willing to send me to a doctor, or a counselor, or a psycho ward, but he refused to do what truly needed to be done for me(which I had told him many times, what I needed, but he always had his own solution). He really has looked like the hero with his crazy wife. Poor guy, see what he has to put up with, at least thats how my sister-in-law(who also has an emotionally dead marriage) seemed to think,along with my so-called best friend. I don't know what he said or didn,t say, but somehow my sister-in-law suddenly became very helpful, "for the kids you know" hmmmm? The kids were supposed to be with me, but my husband wouldn't let them. Poor guy, his wife ran off to play and left him with the three kids, poor guy. I don,t know what went on because nobody will answer my questions. They just say that I have it all wrong and that there was nothing going on, she was just helping for the kids. Funny thing though, she knows what I think(that there was an emotional affair), but hasn't come to defend herself, or help with the kids since I came home. She and my brother and my used to be best friend don't think that I have any physical problems, they think I'm faking. Whatever! I do so enjoy feeling bad most days out of the week, that was my plan for my life. What they don't know is what I was putting up with from "Mr. Wonderful"(to everyone else). I had tried to share some with my best friend, but she would just say "Andys smarter than that". I should just be content and give him a break. All I know is that I'm gone and suddenly my sister-in-law comes to help clean the house. They also went to walmart together, and she swung by the shop(he runs his own very successful business), to see if he wanted to go to lunch,and they did(not really though, they just went through the drive through), I also found several calls back and forth on his cell phone(until they found out that I had been checking his phone). When I confronted him with this, he was furious, how dare I accuse him of such a thing, that would never happen to him(which he denies saying). He would get mad at me, but defend her(when I later ask him about this(defending her), he denied that he defended her and said he was defending himself). He was so "hurt that I would not trust him and would accuse him of such a thing. Well, that was "summer 2006", and we still can't talk about it. He says I should let it go(although when I asked him to go with me to talk to my brother and sister-in-law, he refused and said it would just cause more trouble), but I can't, it just keeps nagging at me. I have dreams about it. I would love to forget about it, I certainly don't enjoy the dreams, and the feeling that he's not telling me something. Now we have to go to thanksgiving with them, and they just talk like everythings ok.They have three kids also, so for the kids sake(they don't understand why they couldn't see each other) I have given in. My sister-in-law called me and told me that she just wanted to get along(for the kids), and she was sorry if there was a misunderstanding,so can we just forget about it and go on, because she didn't want to hash everything out, because that doesn't do any good. Seems like I'm the only one that wants to talk about whatever didn't happen. Maybe I am " making to much of good intentions", but I don't know how to get rid of this feeling. I really want to say something to him about thanksgiving, but I'm scared to death that it would be the end of his change. He has read some of your first book an watched some of the seminar dvd's with me. I have definitely seen some changes that I never thought I'd see, but I'm still skeptical if it's real. He's very adaptable to whatever situation he's in, which is what makes him so good at his business, he can fake it through, be VERY convincing(he convinced me for years that I was the problem in our marriage, which I would admit to and apologize for over and over) and come out shining. He's the all around good guy, great husband, and awesome dad. Always there for everybody(he gets really mad when I say this and starts reminding me of how I haven't been there for him, and what aload he carries(and how good he does it and I should be thankful and content), doesn't like to say no. Well , I hope I haven't rambled to much, of course there is more to this, I hope I've given you enough info to help me out. I'm sorry to bother you, I know you are very busy, and I can't believe I'm actually doing this, I normally wouldn't, I feel kind of bad about saying these things about my husband, and I hope he doesn't see this, I don,t know what I would do. Thank you for your time.

 

sincerely,

 

Michelle

 

=========================================

 

Dear Michelle,

 

Keep reading the books, keep making sure he is reading the books, and watching the DVD set. Let the issue with the sister in law drop; get him to agree to coming to an Intensive. Save all of these letters so you can get them to us again when you come to an intensive. As long as he is reading, watching the DVD set, making some changes, and ultimately registers for an intensive, then go with it. We can deal with the sister in law situation at the intensive. Keep reading yourself, both books, to keep getting stronger.

 

 

====================================

[dory]

Thanks Joel and Kathy for adding the above post to fill in some of the details. I think I now understand what Michelle is going thru. In some ways, it reminded me of my Nemo. He could fool anyone most of the time and would lie to me on most occasions - except on the ones where my proof was undeniable.

 

Joel, it was a January "dance event" that was a last straw that we had our big blowout on which he left the house (again as a threat). Thru Kathy's hand holding advice, I didn't allow him to come back until he met the three conditions of: reading your books, phoning you and coming to an intensive. BUT..... even so, even with the plane tickets in hand, Kathy told me "to pray for everything in darkness to come into the light".

 

I firmly believe it was that prayer led me to find the shattering porn habit that he admittedly indulged in more times than we had sex over the last ten years - which was fairly frequent to say the least! Nonetheless the porn was very damaging to our marriage in the realm of never really "bonding". But that's for another topic and not likely Michelle's specific issue". (But if the husband is so defensive against his wife and for another woman, there is definitely something that's "not right" in the realm of bonding with his wife.)

 

Nevertheless, our real, yet undercurrent issue "came out" after he agreed to the intensive, but before we actually went. This was clearly God answering 3 prayers: revealing everything from out of the darkness, the beginnings of a better marriage, and for my husband to come to know Christ. In short, there was NO way he would have accepted Christ nor accepted what J&K had to offer without the "porn issue" out on the table. I was a mess (still am to some degree). But slowly I am seeing the hidden treasure God gave me in that passage of life. I am SO greatful to J&K for being there to help me step thru that ring of fire safely. To me, it seems his order of events was key in getting him committed to this plan.

 

I guess the point I am trying to make with all of this is that "the plan" that worked in our favor might be the plan Joel is mapping out for you - even though its hard to see. Do whatever it takes to get him to agree to come to an intensive. When everything is set, then pray for your miracle. Pray for everything in darkness to be revealed to you. Right now you definitely FEEL whatever "it" is that is making him defensive and distant towards you, you just don't SEE it. God will be faithful. Here is where prayer really works - for it to be revealed so that you can then move thru to the next step and ultimately the Will He has planned for you and your marriage. I hope your hubby will be one of the easier ones willing to go to an intensive just in the asking. That alone will speak volumes.

 

I didn't have one of the easier hubbies. I had to use one of hubby's threats against him to get him to an intensive. It took me great courage to trust J&K - especially when I told my hubby that he could not come back into the home on one of the many occasions that he "left". That was a hard and difficult leap of faith, but God was faithful to make it work. J&K prayed with and for me. It was ALL good. VERY VERY scary, but all good.

 

I perhaps am offering more info than is necessary. This was my J&K story in a nutshell. But it worked on a man who looked, walked, talked, and smelled like a Christian, but didn't love his wife as a man of God. Now he does. Praise God!

 

For you to think hubby would be mad to read these notes is normal - in the beginning days. Joel's word for these men who don't yet understand the value of transparency is is "CLUELESS". For hubby to be mad if he found them, is also normal, or would it be better to say typical, "arrested" thinking - both on your part and on his. I was there too.

 

In fact, I just pulled up an old note of mine to J&K 16 months ago and it had much the same fear as yours: "Please don't tell him - if he ever found out my marriage would be over." Ha! That was 8 months before I found the porn. Now that I really know what that marriage was really all about, I can't believe I was so willing to do anything to "preserve the peace" in it. What was I thinking! Yet, at the time, I was scared for me and my kids. And rightfully so.

 

Its all OK. You're OK! Your breaking out to write this down is movement in the right direction. The rumblings of unsettledness with your hubby and his S-I-L is the Holy Spirit's nudging. From my first note to J&K to the time we finally had our marriage breakthrough took about 8 months. I pray its shorter for you!

 

God works in mysterious ways. He is awesome. He also works very well thru J&K. I fully believe you can trust where they take you. It might seem scary, but its worth it. They will do all they can to GET you guys into a better marriage. They are SO good at this!

[michelle]

Thank you for your input. It's nice to know there are people who really listen and don't think "Oh, you are just making to much of this." I had to sit there again today and watch them talking( there were several of us sitting around a table). I will admit, he did better this time, he at least included me in the conversation a little bit. We have thanksgiving at my aunts house, and there are plenty of seperate rooms where we don,t have to be together, which worked for a while, but she finaly had to come in where we were. She just has to ask him a question(he doesn't usually start the conversations), and it's about something I know she doesn't care about, but that way she can talk to him. There were plenty of other people to talk to without it even looking like we are avoiding each other,but she just has to come in where we are. It's almost like "in your face, what are you going to do about it". She knows that I can't do any thing as long as he refuses to get together with them and talk about it. I finally did have to get up and walk out of the room. I couldn't watch anymore. He knew why I got up and actually got up also and left the room, but I didn't know it until I looked back in there and he wasn't in there. I don't know how to take that? It's progress I guess, But how long is this going to take. It's like sitting and watching a lake dry up, slow agony , a little is gone each day and you know that when it dries up you will be without water, well by then you may be completely dehydrated. I seriously doubt that he will come to an intensive, we live in Missouri and will be in Orlando for a business trip Nov. 30-Dec.4, so I know he won't take the time or money to go to an intensive also. Besides he won't think we need it because he's been "doing all he can". Well it's late so I need to try to go to sleep and pray that I don't have some stupid dream about it.

[dory]

Hi Michelle,

 

Glad you made it thru Thanksgiving! Halleluia!

 

I was wondering.....would it be possible for him to sit down with both of you and explain to her in front of you that sharing his confidences with her in the past has hurt you very deeply? In order to bring healing to you, he needs to make you his first priority and he needs to do this in her sight and for her knowledge. He needs to make sure you are included in ALL their conversations. Would it help if he held your hand while he spoke to her at the table or in that room you left? Someday your need for such obvious assurance might fade once you are healed, but then again it may never. He needs to accept that you might always worry and he has to learn that your worry is where he is failing to put you first in his life. He needs to spell it out to her and she needs to accept it. If she doesn't, then to honor your heart as his first priority, he will need to close off contact until she "gets" it (and possibly moves on to her next romantic interest. No doubt she is wounded from her husband/past and needs to feel wanted/desired by anyone would might give it to her). If he likes J&K's books, maybe he can give her one and tell her that she and HER hubby need to read up and understand the concepts! It IS good that he recognized that you left the room and why. And it is good that HE is not the one starting conversations. These are little pearls worth celebrating for today!

 

I'd be curious to know what J&K think on this one.

 

There is definitely some underpinning that is making you feel off-balance with this gal. You don't need to feel bad about that. Satan - thru the world - will feed you a lie and try to get you to believe you are "too jealous over nothing". He knows your weak spots and will attack them (thru words of those you love), probably getting you to believe this is all "in your head". In doing so, Satan assures that anything that might be currently hidden will STAY hidden. Darkness is Satan's playground and secrecy is his weapon. God created you to have this intuition. I agree with Joel in trying to put it aside until you get to the intensive, but you don't need to spend gobs of energy feeling bad for not being able to totally shake these negative feelings. SOMETHING is causing them. Joel and Kathy (with God's help) will help pull any secrets into the light so that they can be operated upon in the bright lights of God's Operating Room This is what J&K do best! And the healing is so powerful in creating great marriages.

 

the key is..... I repeat from an above post..

 

Do whatever it takes to get him to agree to come to an intensive. Then pray for your miracle. It is very important that you pray for everything in darkness to be revealed to you. God will be faithful. Pray that you guys will get to an intensive. I will pray for you too. This will move you thru to the next step of His will for your marriage. You say you THINK he will not go. You need to ask him to go. If he does agree, this will speak volumes for him. (If he is not mature enough to yet be able to do any of the things I suggested in the first paragraph, once he understands the teachings of J&K, he WILL be able to do that things that will bring healing.)

 

If he doesn't agree to come, keep hanging with us thru this forum - you will get there one way or another. But your need to do the work of asking and possibly insisting - its not an easy thing to do, but becoming a bonifide "helpmeet", the way God intended, is your work! And its NOT easy work!

 

(BTW, J&K don't pay me to say this stuff - God does(!) with his smiles and love because His work thru J&K is ALL very good. I'll do anything I can to help people find the good news for their marriage that J&K most definitely offer )

[michelle]

Dory,

Thank you so much for your support through this holiday, I couldn't have made it through with out it. Amazing how God always knows when and where we need and can get support, we just need to look to Him. I have not ask about an intensive yet(am hoping to get to this weekend, as we are going on a trip, NO KIDS), but have actually been wondering if God , the book and the dvd's aren't doing the job. Some amazing things have been happening since I talked to you last. He had already been making some definite changes,before thanksgiving. Then the incident that day, which I kept to myself, which funny thing, I just couldn't seem to shake it, Hmmm.. could it be the Holy Spirit?! He knew something was wrong and asked me a couple of times "what" was wrong and I said I didn't want to talk about it now, but he kept insisting(something new), so I finally told him. I told him first that I recognized that he didn,t start the conversations, and that he had included me a little bit in it, and that he had gotten up and left the room after I did and that those action were what kept me from exploding. But I also pointed out that she really had no reason to come in that room, except to talk to him, and that she brings up things that she knows that I don't know about(people,places work related issues, she works outside the home, Iwork in the home). I said "Frankly right now I don't want you to be nice(he knows what I mean), I don't care about her feelings and neither should you. I also pointed out that I had seen him do the "side of the eye thing" looking at her. I also told him about some of the other times we had seen her lately and what had went on. I told him that she knows how I feel about this and has continued on, so something is telling her that it was ok. Some action or nonaction, look or something from him saying this is acceptable even in front of my wife. I told him that for this to be over for me, that he would have to sit down with ME and her and let her know that he loves me and for her not to contact him etc. First of all he let me say all of this without looking mean at me(intimidation), defending himself or her and said he could see my point on "something telling her it was ok". He said, he loves me and doesn't want things to go back to the way they were, he wants to keep moving forward. After he picked me up off the floor(just kiddinggg!), he also said he didn't want to offend me. He also said that he needed some time to absorb all this,which normally would have made me mad because it's not like I haven't told him some of this before, but I also know that he wasn't listening, I believe(I pray) that he is now, by his actions. It's scary to believe that this is real, and I'm trying to, but I was just thinking last night "if he's faking and goes back to the way it was, I don,t think I could physically handle it(it's gone past emotional breakdown to physical breakdown, the Dr. told me my body was shutting itself down). So please continue to pray! I'm walking around in amazement right now. Thank You Jesus!

[Rebecca]

Michelle,

 

Keep holding your husband responsible for what you are both learning from the DVD's and the books. My husband and I viewed the DVD seminar, read both books and it was enough. If you can go to an intensive of course that would be great. But don't let not being able to go stop you from embracing this message and running with it.

 

Your husband will embrace as much as you expect him to. Expect everything. Make it clear that you want him to get this message and that you want him to hear your heart and begin the process of your venting.

 

I don't know why you would want to sit down with your husband and brother and his wife to discuss all of this. For now hold your husband accountable to what you are learning.

 

My husband and I have had to completely cut off his family for many years. It was because of a different situation than yours. I want you to know it is not sin to cut off family members for a season. Some may be permanent, only God knows. Jesus made it clear that in some cases we must hate father, mother, brother, sister for His sake. Your husband must put you above all but Christ Himself. By placing you first he is placing Jesus first.

 

For now I would advise you to cut off all contact with your brother and his wife while you are working on your marriage. If there was adultery then I don't see how being family should be any different that non-family, somebody needs to leave town. But, you don't know that for sure?

 

I hope you have success with all of this for your marriage and children.

[dory]

I don't know why you would want to sit down with your husband and brother and his wife to discuss all of this. For now hold your husband accountable to what you are learning.

 

Rebecca,

 

Above I suggested this to Michelle with thought of whether or not it would help her feel better. If it were me, I would feel better about seeing him ask her in front of me so that the pecking order could be established. I feel he needs to do this if they DO plan on seeing the family at holidays and if there was no physical adultery that took place. If he doesn't say anything to the S-I-L, then she will continue to seek him out for conversation.

 

My "guess" is that SIL is lonely in her marriage and that Michelle's hubby has given her some indication that he is "available" - at least in conversation that we know. A conversation to establish needs and priorities might be helpful for future family gatherings.

 

However Michelle, if things are so bad that you are starting to breakdown physically, then the pain of this situation is deeper that what I may have originally thought. Rebecca has a good point: If you need hubby to break it off with his family for a season, then do so. Your level of sanity is the key in all of this. You should have the final say as to what is necessary. "You the boss" when it comes to your heart and what makes it break.