Any help out there?

[belovedwarrior]

Hey Joel - Kathy,

My name is Beloved Warrior. You don't have any intimate knowledge of me or my situation yet but maybe you do with a situation similar. My wife and I married 9 years ago. She was newly divorced (3 months after it being final after the mandatory 6 month waiting period here in Michigan). We met at divorce recovery. I had been divorced 7 years. We were literally screwing around with each other and ended up pregnant. We married in October- her being 4 months along. Then the hell started. Obviously I was immature and clueless but we were both also bitter for "having to get married." She put a huge amount of pressure on me to provide and in my immaturity felt she wanted way more than I could ever reasonably accomplish. I believed the lie from Satan "that I would never be able to satisfy her and I was nothing more than a paycheck in her eyes." Anytime she expressed any dissatisfaction this prevailing attitude was always the filter in which I heard her complaints. I withdrew and began turning inward even more. I began masturbating habitually as the self-centered self love and bitterness toward her grew. I moved out Feb 13, 2009 and she has filed for divorce.

We civily negotiated our temporary parenting-time agreement just this week via e-mail. I have repented of the masturbation and haven't touched myself since 3/31. I have ordered book 1, devoured the forums and everything I can get from the website. I have also begun "saying" a bunch of bible promises from Joyce Meyers purple book. I know it hasn't been very long- hardly anytime at all but I am wondering what kind of feedback should I be looking for from my wife as I walk this out.

She gives me nothing in response to my e-mails of apology and confession, I sent her a copy of the "Why women get bitter" news letter letting her know I am in agreement of her need to divorce and pull away as well as the audio piece about how it can all be turned around. No acknowledgement whatsoever. Just hearing her say she is interested in watching whether I am sincere or not would be huge. I am not looking for immediate reconciliation as I KNOW I AM NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING MATURE ENOUGH YET IN THE LORD TO GIVE HER A SPECK OF WHAT SHE DESERVES AND I NEED MORE TIME TO SHORE UP MY HEART. But some acknowledgement of change or a desire to talk to me would be nice. We do attend the same church thankfully so there may be opportunity to have contact with her but at this point all doors are shut. In summary:

 

I have stopped masturbating.

I have written an apology of how I failed her but not confessing of the masturbation.

I have told the children (I raised her 3 girls from the previous marriage as my own for the 9 years, the oldest is 13 now the youngest was 3 months when I stepped into the picture)- mommy has done the right thing and I am to blame- she deserves 100% of your love and support.

I am reciting bible promises and getting my mind renewed, rewired.

I sent her the "why women get so bitter" newsletter- she is extremely bitter / wounded.

I sent her the audio clip.

NOTHING IN THE WAY OF RESPONSE:

My goals:

Remain sexually pure.

At 90 days confess all I have accomplished and try to engage her with the questions as an exercise my counsellor has required.

Read the book as many times as I can during that 90 days

 

Thoughts?

 

Beloved warrior

 

Sorry actually tried to make it brief. Any hope considering the circumstances under which we got married in the first place? BTW- At this point there is absolutely no way I can afford the men's conference call- period. Full-time unemployed college student.

 

She tried everything to hold the marriage together BTW.

 

What is the "DO" of becoming more "Christlike?"

[Looney_Tunes]

Hey there, welcome to the forums! I'm sure some of the guys will jump on with some comments, but I just wanted to let you know that your post has been seen. The forums are often less active on the weekends, so please don't think you're being ignored. There is lots of help here, but sometimes it takes a day or two for people to see new posts.

 

Your wife is going to need to see actions, not words. My bet is that you've made a lot of promises to change over the years. It's going to take awhile for her to believe you. Be patient. Don't push.

[belovedwarrior]

Thanks for the acknowledgment. I was concerned I may fall thru the cracks. And yes there has been many exclamations of "having arrived" anytime there was a step in a positive direction. How might she "see" change if we are not talking? I am flat broke right now and the car is in the shop. I had thought of going over to her house while the kids were in school and she was asleep (she works nights) and tidying up her yard, picking up sticks, getting the leaves out of the flower beds and even planting some nice flowers eventually- kind of limited what I can do right now, however. I did send her an e-mail letting her know my pursuing behavior will be coming to an end as I have found a website that I think will be very helpful and I need time to get some education before attempting to engage her without screwing up. I also promised to dedicate my life to serving her and the kids to make up for the hell I put them all through whether we ever share the same roof or not. I guess now I just walk it out??!! I have been saying several scripture verses and made a recording of myself saying these scriptures I intend to listen to everynight while falling asleep. Still waiting on the first book so really haven't even got started but anxious to do so. I want big, beautiful fruit she can see. I also have a job interview at an Amusement park here in Michigan that is very popular... Send out the prayer requests that I get it please.

 

Belovedwarrior

 

Any techniques to becoming "Christlike" are appreciated!!

[Looney_Tunes]

Yep, you just need to walk it out.

 

Cleaning up the yard is a great idea, as long as you're not planning on using any power tools or getting all the neighborhood dogs barking. I work nights as well, so I know how important SLEEP is!

 

Just be sure to listen to her - if she doesn't want you to come over while she's sleeping, then don't. Most of us have been in the position of having our husbands do what THEY wanted to bless us, and trust me, that's not a blessing. My husband would do nice things for me, but it wasn't what I needed and consequently it was just annoying.

 

You probably won't see a positive response for quite some time. Just remember that she's been putting up with your stuff for 9 years. Things won't change overnight.

[gms]

BelovedWarrior - good to have you here.

 

You asked

What is the "DO" of becoming more "Christlike?"

 

Looney shared with you above the basic principle, it is to listen to her heart, her expressed needs and begin to meet them with a loving attitude. That is the "DO" of becoming Christlike. In order to do this you have to put yourself aside, i.e. lay down your life and die to self. Then from this humble position you will be able to meet her needs from the proper perspective - having an attitude like Jesus who although He was God humbled Himself and became a servant taking on human likeness and form. You need to humbly approach her in the ways that she is comfortable with and ask her how you can serve her and the girls.

 

You are just beginning this process so I wouldn't be looking for a sign or expect any particular response from her. Every woman is unique in her desires, needs and responses. There is no cookie cutter expectation that I can give you. So you need to set your mind for positive, loving action and trust by faith that over time the love you give to her will bring healing to her heart and you will have a chance at reconciliation.

 

Great to have you hear, keep asking questions and respond to those who post to you.

[Jeff]

Beloved warrior,

Welcome to the forums. We are glad to have you here. Hopefully you will recieve the books quickly and can get started in earnest. Like GMS said, you may not get any outward signs or positive responses to your efforts. You mentioned that you have written an apology letter to your wife. We usually encourage the men to take a week or two and write out an apology letter containing everything that they have done to hurt there wive's. That would include the masturbation. In this letter, you have to make sure that you don't try to defend your actions, or offer excuses. Excuses are like rear ends, everybody has them and they all stink. . Any other helper's out there with a take on this one? I am not sure if it is too early for that since you haven't gotten the book yet. Don't hesitate to ask any questions that you have. We have all been in the same boat here, so no one is going to judge you.

 

God Bless,

Jeff

[belovedwarrior]

Brian- Thanks for taking the time to write me addressing my "How to become 'Christlike' question." Are you saying that eventually she will reinitiate contact (engage me) most likely when she is ready? Or seen her requests of me up to this point taking place? Like "pay her support and get a job."

 

Jeff- Joel said not to mention the MB but I do not knpw how I could formulate an accurate apology without explaining how it caused the emotional distance or is the emotional distance without the MB better because it sounds like justification- which you cautioned against. Thanks for your time as well I greatly appreciate it.

 

Belovedwarrior

[Giving Hope]

Welcome

 

I'm Jeff wife here....

 

 

If Joel said not to mention the MB..then don't.. More than likely your wife will bring this up....and when she does...admit it...and offer no excuses for it...own this as one of your many abuses.

 

You are going to learn so much about the whys in this ministry...and one of the being "arrested development" and "mother son issues"...once you start learning about these things...your eyes will be opened big time....

 

You are still clueless at this moment...but the good news is that you are here and are teachable...keep that in your heart...that you want to learn how to be a Christlike man of god and husband....Allow yourself to be teachable...and listen to the advice that everyone (men and women) here are going to share with you...Sometimes it might feel like we're beating up on you...don't think this way...each moment is another teachable moment for you to learn...Sometimes the advice is going to go against everything you feel is right...again...this is a teachable moment for you....

 

Step one here...is focusing on your wife...what does that mean? It means to listen to her...not only her words...but the emotion behind those words...What could she be feeling, thinking, expecting? Yes, sometimes you are going to have to be like a detective...you'll get it right sometimes and you'll get it wrong at time as well.. But the more you practice this...the better you will become at it...

 

If you order the hard copy of the books, you will get them soon...read them, underline them, highlight them, look up the passages...commit these books to your memory..These books are your guides to a happy marriage...

 

Again

Welcome

 

Heather and Jeff

[belovedwarrior]

Now that I know there are people out that will actually offer counsel, let me explain a bit more in depth. My wife and I had a very rocky marriage, duh! We got married because we got pregant. I was immature and felt trapped and carried that feeling for the first 2 years maybe. My wife put on quite a bit of weight during the pregnancy but even so was not the package I would have preferred my wife be wrapped in. She is taller than me and blond. I would have preferred petite and brunette but she was willing and had a vagina- I got caught. (I know sound like a pig- hang on) Initially we both started out just being respectful toward one another but had no passionate feelings, obviously we both wanted positive change so we began getting mentored and counselled by a couple from our church. I discovered my bitterness toward her for the pregnancy and once it was forgiven exclaimed like most knuckleheaded men-- "I am healed and have arrived, things out be smooth sailing from here on out." NOT I still had the "not attractive thing, woundedness and distrust from my first marriage rattling around. My wife's self-esteem was in the toilet because of her weight and my lack of affection for her and began loosing the baby weight about the same time I began praying, "God, please stir up in me passion / desire for the wife you have given me." He did but by this time she really did not want much from me in the sex department for having rejected, and ignored her for so long-- but baby you are so sexy (now) didn't cut it. This is when I took matters into my own hands habitually which of course just perpetuated the cycle. Here we are 9 years total down the road.

A) We were never that hot for each other from the get go- just using each other for sex and got caught.

We don't have that many pleasant memories to reflect upon or stir up feelings of nostalgia.

C) She worked her tail off trying to move my heart toward her and finally got fed up with it when I had a car accident and could not work and contribute financially for six months.

D) I don't know if she ever accomplished stirring up loving feelings in herself for me or was just "doing her Christian duty" hoping things would turn around. Obviously at this point in time I dare not ask.

 

What have I done this we separated?? Found this website, wrote her a few e-mails the last being:

 

Hey Honeybear-

 

I am writing to let you know about the website I have found (3/30) and how much good it is doing me. After I explain more to you I am sure you'll want to say "Duh."

The web site is www.godsaveourmarriage.com what makes it so amazing- especially to a control freak like me is that they teach the man is the one responsible for the success and failure of a marriage. Not very comforting originally but ultimately if it is MY responsibility than I can DO something about it rather than lie here like a defeated dog licking my wounds. Wanna hear the really funny part? Their main belief is "If a man will lay down his life, become a Christ like man and grow up and stop acting like a spoiled little 3 year old" the wife will respond. The wife-- well, she pretty much get's a free pass. It's all on the man.

 

Well I am sure I heard some if not all of this before- but it got lost in the "wife must submit" philosophy that is so prevalent and easy to find but totally WRONG! in many of the books published today.

 

I just wanted you to know what is going on and if you are wondering why I have stopped pursuing you is not because I have lost interest but because I realize there is much, much work I must do to obtain even a smidgen of Christlikeness and that I am not able to give you right now what you deserve as the King's daughter. Getting involved with you now at this point would screw things up- especially considering all the pain I have caused you since our wedding day. Please forgive me for appearing to be a coward- I look at it as being in training.

 

I am taking on my flesh and sinful nature which at this point is fight enough. It is my goal to learn to be the best husband and father I can be and dedicate my life to making up to you and the kids for all the hell I caused whether you want to share a roof with me or not but I need some time to get my spirit strengthened, my mind renewed, and my childish heart matured. I just did not want you feeling that I have lost interest or started believing you and the kids are not valuable to me. I am in this for the long haul and ask that you pray for me if you want to.

 

I haven't contacted her since and don't intend to without it concerning my son or something else "business" related- not relationship issues period for at least 90 days.

 

I have reciting a litany of scriptures dealing with anger, fear, anxiety strength loving my wife, wisdom, forgiveness, you get the picture- it's about an hours worth. Already have seen changes. I got called for a job interview today and they want to work hard at getting me a position that is compatible with my school schedule (while I was in the waiting room I heard the receptionist tell another candidate over the phone that they have over 2000 applications to go thru 1 at a time) and I was sitting there for an interview!! Once in the interview we talked as if my working there was a forgone conclusion they just needed to find me a position condusive to my class schedule- even referring me to another department righ then and there. Isn't one of the signs your heart has turned toward God in a manner pleasing to Him blessings and answered prayer? I know I said a lot... please, anyone, answer as much or as little as you want to address but I really need the support. I apologize I have nothing yet to give back I am just getting started and still so very ignorant.

 

Belovedwarrior

[Giving Hope]

A) We were never that hot for each other from the get go- just using each other for sex and got caught.

 

We don't have that many pleasant memories to reflect upon or stir up feelings of nostalgia.

 

C) She worked her tail off trying to move my heart toward her and finally got fed up with it when I had a car accident and could not work and contribute financially for six months.

 

D) I don't know if she ever accomplished stirring up loving feelings in herself for me or was just "doing her Christian duty" hoping things would turn around. Obviously at this point in time I dare not ask.

 

 

A) You said that you both got caught up in the moments and got caught...While this is true...and you probably should not have married each other at the time...but you did...and now God has put this union together and He doesn't want to see it destroyed...God brought you together for a reason and he made the two of you become one..One flesh..

 

You're feelings about this..is all because of you own arrested development...Which from the sounds of it..is about 2 years old emotionally... So instead of embracing your wife...you throw a temper tantrum..throwing, kicking and screaming...Blaming your wife for getting pregnant and having to get married...Blaming your wife because now you had to grow up and become responsible...Guess what? Get over yourself...You know.. I wonder how your wife felt over this? Wonder how alone and abandoned she was feeling while being in a very delicate position in her life? Probably like crap right? (yes this is the beating you up part here...but only to teach you...go keep with me here.)

 

Now that you are starting to see this a little differently here...you can see where its "YOUR FALUT" for the problems in your marriage....Start tonight and think back to that time...and this time, look at it from your wife's position...try to feel what she could have been feeling at the time...This might take a while here...and you might not be able to do it right away...but its a start..Ask ask to show you your wife's feelings at that time...and ask Him to allow you to feel what she was feeling...

 

No pleasant memories.. While this is probably hard here....you can start to make these pleasant memories with her now... How can you do this? Easy...Book the two of you for an intensive...(Isn't your wife here on the forums as well? I thought I had seen her name around here) Doing this is your fork in the road...a new beginning place....But you can still do some of the small things between now and then...Serving your wife..weekly gifts..(do the gift thing every week on the same day..something small, probably no more than $5-10), like a gift card for coffee, shopping, flowers, etc...While Jeff and I didn't have a lot of money to throw out on gifts each week...Jeff would have to get pretty creative here...In fact one day he wanted to get me flowers and having no money at the time..he went in searching of flowers in the neighbors yards...Best gift...because then I knew he was thinking about me and actually spent the time to do this just for me....Blow up a few balloons (get them from the dollar store) and attach love notes to them...leave them in her car for her to find....My point..get creative here if you have no money...But start today making those memories....

 

C).. Admit this to your wife is one of the biggest things you can do ...and then apologize for this...not a head apology...but a heartfelt one...After you do this..you need to validate your wife's feelings over this...and then you need to assure her that this will never happen again..and then come up together with a consequences t does happen again...(which for some reason I don't think is going to happen right???)

 

D) Sometime tells me that she does love you...why do I say this? Because god give wife's a desire to be with their husbands, and that desire is very hard to just let go of....

 

 

Now the reason (not the excuse) for the porn issues in your life...This has nothing to do with your wife, her weight gain, or the color of her hair...that is blaming your wife...doesn't cut it...The reason is because you had to prove to yourself that you are a normal, straight man in this world...Why would you need to prove this to yourself? Because at some point in your life you had some same sex contact..Just like every other guy around..It could have been something simple as "show me yours and I'll show you mine" in the locker room...to being molested. I'm not going to ask you what happened..Frankly its none of my business...But when this happens to a child...it messes up the chemicals in a mans brain...and this is the only reason a man turns to porn....Once you accept this as fact...then you can stop it and turn away from it....(yes there might still be a struggle sometimes) but you now can tell yourself that you don't have to prove you are attracted to women....The only women you have eyes for now is your wife....

 

Now you mentioned that you have been reciting scripture.. I hope that you haven't been reciting this to your wife...Because that will only being upon guilt to her...You can' t do this...Now if you are going reciting it for yourself...that's fine...great keep doing that...keep yourself into God's word....

 

Last..Put no pressure on your wife at all.. Don't expect any response at this time...If you are lucky enough to get a "thank you"...let yourself feel that this is the biggest gift you could have been given...She will start to respond when she is feeling safe again...This is not an over night thing here...it does take time...You have been married a number of years and it could take that long to heal the wound....Also...this ministry isn't one of those programs you read about...and say we can do this or that...This is a lifetime commitment here...You can't do it one day and forgot about it tomorrow, then pick up back up next week...It has to be done everyday with consistency on your part...Actions speak louder than words sometimes...So think about what your actions are saying to your wife...Are the saying that you want to be in this marriage or saying that you don't care one way or the other? You have to say positive that you can do this...even when the road seems long and hard..Because God has called you to be the man of her dreams...and that means you lay down your life for your wife and meet all her needs and wants....God didn't say everyone but you can do this...He calls ALL men to do this...and has given you the tools now to do it....

 

Blessings

Heather and Jeff

[belovedwarrior]

Very eye opening, Gaininghope. I appreciate your insight and your encouragement although it was certainly not rosy- it was compassionate. I am looking forward to the growth and the day I will know that I know what I know is good and right. Make sense? About the e-mail I sent her... o.k.?

 

What kind of messages go with the gift cards?? Thinking of you? Hoping you have a good day? Missing you? Can't wait to undress you again? LOL

 

Still desperately waiting on my 1st book. Devouring the forum for men winning back wife's heart.

 

Belovedwarrior

[Giving Hope]

Apology letter is to let your wife know that you are taking ownership of the abuses you have caused her...by doing so you list all the ones you can remember and after each one apologize for them... Look around here...there are some great ones you can use as a jumping off point.....

 

As for messages on gifts..something simple works best....I"m thinking of you...I miss you...I'm sorry...

 

 

Keep it short and simple is always best in the beginning.....

 

Also...something that I forgot to tell you about...Since you should be getting your books soon...you will read about this as well....

 

Start initiating things with your wife....(even if she doesn't respond as first) still do...Initiate conversations...asking her about her day...if there is anything you can do for her...is there anything she would like to talk about today...and then really listen..validate her feelings...encourage her if needed....appreciate her when she's done something for you.. but the most important thing...initiate 20 hugs, 20 smiles and 20 kisses each day....She might not respond right away and she might push you away at first...but continue to do this....you might not hit 20 of each everyday...but use this as a goal to keep in mind.....

 

One other thing...(cause I know I am overwhelming you with so much information here) is to remember at this point in time...its not about what you are feeling...right now your feelings do not matter anymore....lay them aside...and really just focus on what your wife is feeling...and you getting in touch with her feelings....

 

 

You're going to make it if you take the advice given with the same attitude you have shown so far.....

 

Blessings

Heather and Jeff

[gms]

bw - thanks for jumping in and giving us some more background on your situation. You are not without hope, your marriage is not without hope for nothing is impossible with God. This is going to take everything you have got to give, i.e. your life to win your wife's heart back. I want you to remember this; what you invest in you will treasure. If you invest in your wife - in the ways she will allow at this point, she will become a treasure and a jewel of great price to you.

 

you asked:

Are you saying that eventually she will reinitiate contact (engage me) most likely when she is ready? Or seen her requests of me up to this point taking place? Like "pay her support and get a job."

 

Do what she has expressed to you that she needs from you. This is laying down your life and dying to self. By all means get a job and start supporting her and your children, that is one of the primary responsibilities of a husband. Don't hang you hat on one job potential with 2000 other candidates - them having to work around your schedule is not in your favor, it is something they will have to accomodate and if there are 4 other equally qualified candidates who don't have that condition you will not be getting the job. Can you work your class schedule around their hours of operation? You need to do whatever you need to do, especially in these tough times to set yourself apart to get a job and support your family.

 

Will she turn her heart back to you? The odds are dramatically in your favor. Very few women will recieve love from their husbands and not respond warmly. Will it take 6 months for her to actually be able to believe that this is for real and you aren't just trying to manipulate her? Maybe. It might take a year or more of consistent love and support for her to open up her heart to reconcile the marriage. It might take a shorter period of time. No matter how long it takes, if you live up to your calling as a husband you have a chance at reconciling your marriage and living in an outrageously happy marriage with a healthy, healed, whole and loving woman - your bride.

 

With God all things are possible and you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you!

 

Die to self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Love you wife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[belovedwarrior]

Brian, I GOT THE JOB--- YIPPEE!!!

 

I'll be working the employee entrance guard shack 8a.m. - 6p.m. The only day I could commit to that time frame with my college schedule being what it is is Friday. They hired me!! AND - they want me doing my school work during the slow times- says it enhances the "professional image" I present. So I'll be working and studying for 10 hours on the only real day I had to screw off. Win, win. What you think of that??

 

Now correct me if I am wrong but don't blessings, favor, and answered prayer validate God is pleased with what you are doing and in this context mean I am becoming more Christlike and doing what needs to be done to increase the likelihood of reconcilliation?

 

Next thing on the agenda is a really good car for less than $1200. I have a junker sitting at the shop (not yet being worked on) that needs $1100 in tranny work. I think I can get a whole car much better than what I would have with fixing the one that needs the tranny for $1100- cause it would still need shocks / struts, intake gasket, and exhaust plus it already has 180K on the motor. I have looked on craigslist and saw a couple of Bonnevilles, Intrigues, and Auroras for that price tag. So pray for my success in that arena. Next step will be the gifting process. I'd really like to plant my wife's flower beds at her new house. She used to beg me to do yard work / gardening with her but always declined because of the depression I suffered from the thoughts I thought she thunk about me. (You'll have fun with that statement- I am sure)

 

Got to get back to the books.

 

Please anyone- any and all counsel is welcome!!

 

Beloved warrior

[gms]

bw - great news on getting the job, make plans now about how much of that income you are going to give to her for her and the children's support.

 

It is great to start thinking of ways you can bless her, but make sure that you check with her to see if it is actually something she wants done now. Just because she wanted this in the past does not necessarily mean she wants this today...you have to ask her. When you do what she is asking you to do you are meeting her expressed needs and that is what you want. If she won't tell you anything, then you can fall back on doing some things you know she has asked for in the past. Buying some groceries and taking it over is always a good thing for a mom with children.

 

Congratulations again on the job and I pray the Lord would also lead you to the right car for your needs now.

[Looney_Tunes]

Congrats on getting the job! That's awesome! Yes, I believe God does bless us as we do our best to be obedient to Him.

 

We've been there with the car thing, so I can definitely relate and will be praying for wheels.

 

One thing to remember as you interact with your wife - she has been HURT, and hurt people sometimes hurt people. She may actually get mad and lash out at you as you try to do/say nice things, and you CANNOT react negatively if she does. You have to say, "I know I've treated you badly, and I understand why you're angry." She may shut down and not want to talk to you at all, and you have to avoid feeling sorry for yourself.

 

In order to be successful, your goal has to be to become the man God wants you to be, and not to simply get your wife back.

[belovedwarrior]

Thanks all for the encouragement. I wish I had more of it. It is so tough seeing the woman I love so much so infrequently. She does not respond to my e-mails, it not interested in the book, will not engage in conversation when she picks up or drops off my son. I do not have a car and am not comfortable using my college grant money that I need for survival to get one without a job to replace the money I spend on it. I wish there was someone I could call for encouragement. A real human would be so much more comforting than writing here and waiting days for a response.

[Looney_Tunes]

Are you on the conference calls? You'll find a ton of encouragement and live bodies to speak to.

[belovedwarrior]

Cannot afford a pot to pee in let alone the $100 a month for the conference call.

[Looney_Tunes]

No, I mean the regular couples calls - Mon, Tues, Wed & Thurs with various helpers. There is no charge for those calls other than a monthly donation of any amount to the ministry, and that's on the honor system. No one checks to see if you've sent money before they will talk to you.

[belovedwarrior]

I was unaware of those. When are they? What are the numbers? Or where do I go to get the info?

[Looney_Tunes]

[belovedwarrior]

Thanks very much. Sorry for the delay had computer issues that required a Windows reinstall and a hunt for the corresponding "drivers" to get internet working again. I will check some of these out as time permits. Are these specifically for men trying to win back the hearts of their wives??

[Looney_Tunes]

The calls are general marriage help. There is a loose format - first up are usually couples who have already been to an intensive, then couples who have not, then single women, and then single guys. You may or may not get to talk, depending who's on, but you will definitely get a lot of information and encouragement just by listening. At the beginning of the call the moderator will usually ask who's on the line - speak up and say hi and let them know you'd like some help if time permits. The calls usually run pretty late - we've been on the phone till 3-4 (ok, 5!) am EST some nights, so if you are able to hang out that long you will almost guaranteed be able to talk. If you're not, let the moderators know what time zone you're in when you say hi and they will do their best to give you some time.