Ranger = The man who watches out for danger ahead, confronts my issues head on

[biff]

Ok lets try this again, I tried to post last night but minimized the screen and lost what I was writing It was late last night and I was too tired to write again.I know I need to be consistant and stay on the forum posting.Just to recap, I went over to Claire's last night to clean up the yard. The grass needed to be cut and the weeds were getting terrible. Claire told me that cleaning up the yard was not really a blessing to her , but I wanted to do it for her anyway because the landscapper that I have used could not get over there for a few days.

Claire was at the swim meet with the children, we have four, 12 and under.Claire did not want me there at the swim meet, which I understand because it is kind of awkard. Claire told me something which breaks my heart for her, we have been keeping our seperation quiet but it now seems to be the buzz of the neighborhood.There was a community meeting and my Claire's name was brought up as a potential candidate to serve on the board. This one divorced lady spoke up and said I don't think so because of our seperation in front of everyone,(people my wife knows)OUCH! :angry I wished I had been there I would have first told everone it is all my responsibilty for our seperation, and second they my beautiful Claire could run rings around this lady, Claire is a very organized person and would have been a good fit for the job.This lady has been on the board and has not done a good job.Sorry I am digressing here, I am just sad for Claire and the stress I have caused her. Well I know the Lord is good and will see her through this mess I made.)

 

 

While I was doing the yard last night I could not believe how many weeds there were.As I got down on my hands and knees to try to pull these weeds out I could not believe how deeply the weeds root system had spread out.I had to stop for a minute , and ponder the weeds that I had let creep into my life. Claire used to give me a hard time(I deserved it) about using my weed eater to chop down the weeds instead of pulling the weeds up by the roots. I had this powerfull machine that had a blade attachment and boy did I enjoy attacking those weeds.All that power and the weeds just kept coming back with a vengeance.The only thing that would work is getting on my hands and knee's and extracting

the root system.

 

 

I pray daily that I am not just doing a suface cutting , but a deep root extracting of the sins that has gripped me and overtaken me to the point of being a ineffectual husband, and being a ineffectual man of God .I have to get down on my hands and knees feel, the pain that my sin has caused.

 

 

Romans6:6 For we know that our old self was crucifid with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin...

[desertrose]

Hmmm...not a helper but just have a few ideas. I love your wife and want to see her healed.

 

Losing your post and it being too late doesn't cut it. Sorry. If you knew you could get a million dollars by posting last night would you? So money is more important than your bride? My husband has used this one on me. I don't buy it for a minute. You make time and are relentless in making time for those things that are important to you...It's time to put that same effort into what's important to her.

 

Well I know the Lord is good and will see her through this mess I made

Yes he will. But guess what? You are His hands and feet. Did you apologize to your bride for this with an LOVER? Did you ask her if there is anything you can do make it right for her?

 

Great analogy about the weeds...so how are you doing this and what are some of the weeds? Words mean little without application and actions.

[MaryJane]

I thought it was quite a good post, myself. Then I read Desertrose's and realized -- she's right!

 

Don't get discouraged and give up though. Your wife will thank you -- profusely, one way or another -- in the end!

[Claire]

Thanks, Biff, for the post and for the weed analogy. For many years, I've watched the weed whacking (in more ways than one) and not the weed pulling. You were so proud of your whacking accomplishments. The yard looked good, but it wasn't good. You couldn't see the weeds, but the weeds were still there.

 

Thanks, desertrose and MJ, for encouraging both of us! This is so good for Biff to hear other men's wives bring him back to the reality of these situations. It's amazing how the apology thing was working before. The problem now is that I don't want to hear apologies. I am struggling with giving Biff the time of day to talk. I'm just not there yet. He pretty much shut me out of his life for two weeks. Now, he wants to begin dating again and talking. I told him that I wouldn't choose to date somebody like him. That sounded so harsh coming from my mouth, but it's true. I didn't know the man that I married. He kept all of these "weeds" hidden from me. My heart doesn't really care to deal with weak apologies and broken promises. Biff, you better be adding all of these situations to your apology list...for another day.

[Claire]

Biff, please face it you are not working to win my heart back. You came over here with your agenda and you had Jim and Mary do it and a couple more things that I asked. Thanks for that.

 

Why did you than turn around to accuse me of holding you back from the children? Why did you start the accusations about Jim, the marriage therapist? Why do you push me to "talk" only to push buttons and than when I'm defensive and angry, you blame me for talking? Why do I have to forgive you when you haven't even asked for forgiveness? Why do I not have the ability to be angry at you for not asking forgiveness? Why do you not understand that I've been angry at you for years like you brought up because you've hurt and abused me for years? Is your memory that clouded? Do you really think that I am capable of forgiving and forgetting when a change isn't happening? Why do you recognize what this ministry offers, use it in our conversation, and than turn around and undermine their counsel? You continue to push, push, push me away by exactly what you allowed to play out this afternoon. I will not go forward with this kind of a hurtful, manipulative relationship!!! Do you not understand?

[Claire]

For the record, you will pick up the children at 1 tomorrow. Please bring them back by 7. I'm sure they would enjoy a hike since that's on your list of hobbies on your member forum. Can't remember the last time you went on a hike.

[Claire]

Just talked to Biff. He's angry at me. He said that I made him look bad on the forum. Why is he allowed to be angry with me for keeping it real? Why am I'm not allowed to be angry because he hasn't even implied that he wants to start asking forgiveness for the things that keep piling up? Instead, I'm just supposed to in Biff's words, "put the past behind me and move on". I simply can't do that right now...without words and actions to back up a "heart decision". There is nothing left for me to invest in this marriage.

[MaryJane]

Biff, on the forum, it doesn't matter whether you look good or bad. It only matters how you treat your wife. Besides, if you hear your wife's heart and treat her with the love of Christ, you'll automatically look GOOD.

 

Please, you've got to care about your wife's heart WAY ahead of how you appear to nameless people here.

 

Claire can't "put the past behind her and move on" because her past is not healed yet.

 

She NEEDS to feel safe enough with you to EXPRESS her feelings about it first. You must call on God to help you --

 

to take what she says, whether in anger or tears,

 

to tell her she has every right to feel the way she feels,

 

and to LOVE her in the way she feels loved.

 

Do this enough, and you'll have a happy marriage! Simple.

 

You know this.

[J_W]

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/4635-logic-of-using-the-jk-method/page__pid__120379__st__0entry120379

 

God's Phoenix Posted Today, 09:23 AM

So I've just been mulling some things over from the call the other night, where one of the participants said that J&K's books were just one of the things she was trying to fix her marriage. Because when she said that, a thought shot into my mind, and I need to explore it. So forgive me if this is disjointed, but DO chime in with thoughts!

 

I think that fixing a marriage is kind of like going on a diet for medical reasons. Like, say you need to lose 100 pounds. There are scads of diets out there, each with a slightly different approach. But you can't follow the Raw Food Diet and the Atkins Diet and the Popcorn Diet all at the same time. So you have to pick one to focus on.

 

When you choose the diet, you have to follow the instructions. If you SAY you are trying to lose weight on the Atkins Diet, but you have a bowl of corn flakes and a glass of orange juice for breakfast every morning, then you are NOT following the diet AND you will not see the results that you expect.

 

When you follow the diet, you have to expect and embrace change. If the diet says "half a grapefruit and a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast" you must give up your usual omelette and sausage. If the diet says that you must drink 100 ounces of plain water daily, you have to give up your Diet Coke. If the diet says that you must walk for thirty minutes daily, you can't come home from work and watch television for three hours and then go to bed.

 

So it seems to me that changing a marriage is similar. You can't do John Gray and J&K and the SBC's local marriage recovery group all at once. You have to pick a system and follow it.

 

If you SAY that you are doing J&K's marriage healing system, you have to follow the instructions. If J&K say that for a season you must focus ONLY on the wife's needs, you can't keep sneaking in the husband's needs. If J&K say 20-20-20-20 every day, and you only do 10-5-3-6, you have to work to establish the new habit. If J&K say "weekly date" or "weekly small gift," then you have to make that a new habit.

 

Going on a diet is HARD. You have to stop your habitual, comfortable behaviours and give up some stuff that makes you feel good. You have to face your shortcomings and your issues and truly address the underlying problems. And healing a marriage is HARD. For the same reasons.

 

And going on a diet is no guarantee of success. An underlying health issue, or sabotage from friends/family, or lack of self-control can all wreck your diet. Following a marriage program is also no guarantee of success. You have two people with free will. If only one of them decides to "Get with the program" then success may be delayed or thwarted.

[Claire]

I've spent two days in very unsuccessful conversations with Biff. Today, he told me that he isn't committed because he doesn't know my commitment. To break down the conversation these are the main points: 1.) I've manipulated Biff, 2.) I've controlled Biff, 3.) I have anger issues, 4.) I'm lying on the forum, 5.) I'm now manipulating our children.

 

The children woke up this a.m. asking to not go with their dad. I told them they had to, but maybe they could go for a short amount of time if that was better. I told them I'd call their dad. Their response was, "No, mom. He'll just get upset with you and tell you you're manipulating us." I told them that I was their mother and so I'd ask. Biff didn't let us down. His response was just as the kids and I expected. It led to a 1 1/2 hour conversation which ended in NOTHING except the given: this is why we're not together...this is why we won't be together. By the way, they were with Biff Wednesday night, Thursday a.m. Biff took A to breakfast, and he was here Saturday for 4 hours and said, "Hi," and "Bye" to the children. That's it! He told me that he was over focusing on me the past 5 plus months and so he was going to focus on the kids. Funny...Biff has been focusing on Biff. i.e. porn, no calls, lack of commitment posting on the forum, retreating/pouting, committing and falling out of commitment to this ministry continually, etc., etc.

 

I asked Biff if he had watched Fireproof and if he would watch the J & K DVD's. He responded, "I don't have a DVD player to watch." Again, excuses. Why can Biff access anything...any movie...any youtube segment...any porn stuff from his computer at work; however, he can't watch info to heal our marriage. Why can Biff spend more money on new clothes, activities for the children, etc., etc.; however, he can't buy a little portable DVD player to watch this stuff? Biff can have the computer guy put anything he wants to on his computer, why can't he get a DVD player? He has a blue-ray DVD player that he had to have 2 years ago here at the house that hasn't been used. He's welcome to pick that up! If there's a WILL, there's a WAY! Yes, I'm yelling those words.

 

Do you think there is a need for me to continue dialogue with Biff unless on a conference call or unless he's committed to working on the apology list with a willing, committed, changed heart? Otherwise, there's no need for me to emotionally and physically thrown for a loop like the past two days. I'm so over feeling this way when he's in the picture! I can't do it! For the sake of my children and my own sanity, I won't do it!

[Claire]

I've spent two days in very unsuccessful conversations with Biff. Today, he told me that he isn't committed because he doesn't know my commitment. To break down the conversation these are the main points: 1.) I've manipulated Biff, 2.) I've controlled Biff, 3.) I have anger issues, 4.) I'm lying on the forum, 5.) I'm now manipulating our children.

 

The children woke up this a.m. asking to not go with their dad. I told them they had to, but maybe they could go for a short amount of time if that was better. I told them I'd call their dad. Their response was, "No, mom. He'll just get upset with you and tell you you're manipulating us." I told them that I was their mother and so I'd ask. Biff didn't let us down. His response was just as the kids and I expected. It led to a 1 1/2 hour conversation which ended in NOTHING except the given: this is why we're not together...this is why we won't be together. By the way, they were with Biff Wednesday night, Thursday a.m. Biff took A to breakfast, and he was here Saturday for 4 hours and said, "Hi," and "Bye" to the children. That's it! He told me that he was over focusing on me the past 5 plus months and so he was going to focus on the kids. Funny...Biff has been focusing on Biff. i.e. porn, no calls, lack of commitment posting on the forum, retreating/pouting, committing and falling out of commitment to this ministry continually, etc., etc.

 

I asked Biff if he had watched Fireproof and if he would watch the J & K DVD's. He responded, "I don't have a DVD player to watch." Again, excuses. Why can Biff access anything...any movie...any youtube segment...any porn stuff from his computer at work; however, he can't watch info to heal our marriage. Why can Biff spend more money on new clothes, activities for the children, etc., etc.; however, he can't buy a little portable DVD player to watch this stuff? Biff can have the computer guy put anything he wants to on his computer, why can't he get a DVD player? He has a blue-ray DVD player that he had to have 2 years ago here at the house that hasn't been used. He's welcome to pick that up! If there's a WILL, there's a WAY! Yes, I'm yelling those words.

 

Do you think there is a need for me to continue dialogue with Biff unless on a conference call or unless he's committed to working on the apology list with a willing, committed, changed heart? Otherwise, there's no need for me to emotionally and physically thrown for a loop like the past two days. I'm so over feeling this way when he's in the picture! I can't do it! For the sake of my children and my own sanity, I won't do it!

 

 

(Sorry, we use the DVD player. I thought there was another DVD player on our bottom shelf, but it's a sound system that we don't use. Still, where there's a will, there's a way. Right?)

[Claire]

Biff, I wanted to comment on your remark earlier that you made regarding "most of the helpers on this forum are divorced" . In looking over your history of kind people who have taken the time to post, encourage, teach, etc. on your thread, there's only one (Looney Tunes) that I'm seeing has been divorced. That said, why doesn't that encourage you in hope for an OHM instead of give you fuel against this ministry/program? The only people who end up divorced are those not willing to commit and work towards an OHM...those who want to live in their own emotional arrested development...those who are given the knowledge and tools; however, choose to not use that knowledge and tools to push them in the right direction. If that is one more excuse of yours to take action toward healing our marriage, your comment reveals which side of the fork we are heading.

[desertrose]

Claire, I would encourage you to disengage. Let the helpers take it from here and save your emotional energy.

 

Biff, hello??

[Claire]

Claire, I would encourage you to disengage. Let the helpers take it from here and save your emotional energy.

 

Biff, hello??

 

 

I understand. There was just so much negative dialogue over the weekend...my mind and heart are reeling. Thanks.

[rejoicein]

I see that you are on here. What are you doing? Just looking for one more excuse. Your smoke and mirrors wont help you here. Either get some and start being a real man or you will live in this place of poor me forever.

Your wife and children deserve better than the crumbs they get from you

steve

Edited June 6, 2011 by rejoicein

[J_W]

I understand. There was just so much negative dialogue over the weekend...my mind and heart are reeling. Thanks.

 

 

Biff,

why is there negative dialogue going on?

aren't you supposed to be trying to win back your wife's heart?

why not try the LOVER apology?

why not try following the boundary guidelines Claire has set before you? This will show her that you actually honor her

why not pretend that you are trying to DATE her as you did in the earlier days? She obviously saw something in you back then that she saw in wanting to spend the rest of her life with -- selfishness has sent that guy packing -- and so now you have to rebuild trust -

 

 

for quite awhile now you've been only feeding death to your bride and children --

a LOVER apology and consistent positive actions and words would be the steps in the RIGHT direction IF you are wanting to become a Christlike husband, a Christian man.

 

my .02

June of

[J_W]

apparently you did nothing with the post from:

 

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/4584-lone-ranger/page__view__findpost__p__119921

 

it is past time now for you to come to the reality of how you have abused your bride. Did you ever complete the abuse/power/control questionaire? listen to the recorded call between Joel and another husband who claimed to not be abusive?

 

If not, then you MUST do this now, for you, sir, are continuously heaping on abusive actions towards your bride, you remember her, the one that the Lord told you to shower her with His agape-loving, to cherish and honor, to live with understanding, to BE HIM to her -- what a great privilege and awesome responsibility -- and yet, you have been hurting one of His precious daughters.

 

read through and LISTEN first at:

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3188-abusepowercontrol/

 

and THEN answer the questionaire:

Abuse/Power/Control QUESTIONS TO ASK of husband about how he treats his wife ….and of the wife about the husband (NEVER the other way around). When answering, just check off the ones that are a “yes“ -- do

not defend, explain or overlook any question -- do not excuse it as “this is how our family is” or “that is how I grew up” -- simply use the “yes” or “no” method with either an "x" or a check-off.

 

Since husbands might not necessarily recall their bad behavior, the wife most probably will, so it is important for both husband and wife to honestly answer these questions. UNLESS the wife feels “safe” enough to answer, she should only use this list when feeling safe enough to discuss it without recoil and retaliation. Determining the type of abuse is VERY helpful in beginning the healing process in a damaged marriage relationship.

 

Have you ever exhibited these behaviors, even ONE time?:

Beating ___ biting ____ choking ____ grabbing ____ hitting _____ kicking _____ pinching ____ pulling hair ___ punching ____ pushing ____ restraining ____

scratching ____ shaking ____ shoving ____ slapping ____ excessive tickling____ twisting arms____ using weapons ____ spanking ____ smothering ____ tripping ____ hitting with an object either with striking or throwing, etc ___

If yes: Physical Abuse

 

Have you ever treated your wife like a servant ____

Do you make all of the decisions ____ act like “Master of the Castle” ____

If yes: Male Privilege Abuse

 

Have you received therapy, OR gone to seminary, OR used self-help books then come back and turned this knowledge/info against the wife, but do not take responsibility for personal behaviors ______

If yes: Knowledge Abuse

 

Have you ever demanded unwanted or bizarre sexual acts ____

Made physical attacks to sexual parts of the body ____

Treated her as a sex object ____

Interrupted sleep for sex ______ forced her to have sex ____

Ever exhibit extreme jealousy ____

((side note: Jesus said that a man who lusts after another woman has committed adultery in his heart already) viewed any type of pornography _____

If yes: Sexual Abuse

 

Have there ever been displays by the husband of

hostile humor ____ publicly criticizes____ degrades her appearance ____ degrades her parenting skills ____ degrades her housekeeping ____ degrades her cooking____ forces her to eat foods she doesn’t like ____

If Yes: Humiliation Abuse

 

Do you make your wife responsible for everything in life ____ ie bills ____ parenting ____ etc ____

If Yes: Responsibility Abuse

 

Have you hurt your wife and then do not allow her to receive medical treatment ____

Have you ever forbid her to receive medical treatment for normal health issues. ____

If Yes: Medical Abuse

 

Have you ever used Scripture and words like “submission” and “obey” to abuse ____

Used spiritual language to defend any hurtful words or actions ____

If Yes: Scriptural/Religious Abuse

 

Have you ever used the children to give messages ____

used visitation rights to harass ____ uses child support as leverage ____

If Yes: Using Children Abuse

 

Have you ever exerted control regarding:

what is done ____ who is seen____ who is talked to ____

limits or listens in on phone calls ____ sabotages car ____ restricts outside interests ____ insists on moving frequently ____ required your wife to stay in the house ____

restricts access to the mail ____ deprives your wife of friends ____

If Yes: Isolation Abuse

 

Have you ever denied your wife of basic rights ____

used the law to enforce your power ____ deprived her of a private or personal life ____ Have you ever mandated duties of your wife ____ control everything ____ (ie, the amount of bath water she uses ____)

If Yes: Power Abuse

 

Have you ever had spies checking on her ____ follows her to activities ____

ie store ____, church ____, work ____, etc just to make sure she is where she “should” be ____ Have you displayed extreme distrust and jealousy ____

If Yes: Stalking Abuse

 

Have you ever put her down____ called her names____ played mind games ____ commits mental coercion ____ exhibits extreme controlling behaviors ____

withheld affection ____ caused her to lose her identity ____

If Yes: Emotional Abuse

 

Have you ever threatened to end the relationship ____

threatened to emotionally or physically harm her ____ threatened her life ____

threatened to take the children ____ threatened to commit suicide ____

Threatened to report her to authorities ____ Forced your wife to break the law ____

If Yes: Threat Abuse

 

Have you ever:

puts restriction on her employment ____ made her ask for money ____

give her an allowance and take the money she earns ____

required her to account for every penny she spends ____

If Yes: Economic Abuse

 

Have you ever:

ruined her credit ____

put the car(s), house, recreational equipment, and/or property in ONLY your name ____ spend her money ____ used her credit or savings to make her dependent on you ____

If Yes: Financial Abuse

 

Have you ever:

used looks, actions, gestures, and/or voice to cause fear ____

argued continuously ____ demand that your wife says what you want to hear ____

If Yes: Intimidation Abuse

 

Have you ever during your marriage:

punched a wall ____ destroyed property ____ broken down a door ____

Pounded on a table ____ abuses pets ____ etc

If Yes: Property Violence

 

When speaking have you:

Used curse words ____ accused your wife ____ called her names ____

used past to control and manipulate ____ committed mental blackmail ____

made unreasonable demands ____

If Yes: Verbal Abuse

 

Have you ever used silence as a weapon ____ punished her by not speaking to her ____ unwilling to communicate ____ do not express emotion ____

refuse to repeat back statements to your wife ____

If Yes: Silence Abuse (aka in Hegstrom’s book as the “Silent Knight”)

 

Have you ever

used jealousy as a sign of love ____

controlled what wife does ____ who she sees ____ who she talks to ____

controlleds when/where your wife goes ____

refused to let wife participate in activities outside the house ____

drop in “just to watch” ____ isolated wife from friends and family ____

is possessive of wife in every area of life ____

If Yes: Jealousy Abuse

 

 

IF ONLY ONE answer in a category is a Yes, then the entire category is an ABUSIVE behavior that the husband has exhibited, making the husband an abuser. IF you have repented fully (in ways that are wholly acceptable by your wife) and no longer act in these ways, then you are a recovered abuser. THAT is the goal.

Most men in an unhappy marriage are abusive in at least 6 categories - some more, some less. Reminder, however, that only ONE category still an abuser makes.

 

WHAT IS ABUSE ?

Physical Abuse: Any touch not given in love, respect, and dignity.

Emotional Abuse: Any communication, admonition, reprimand, or reproof that does not uplift, edify, or bring conflict resolution.

 

Are you aware that there are 21 forms of abuse? Some forms of abuse are so subtle that people accept them as normal. All forms of abuse are devastating and destroy individuals and their relationships. (per Paul Hegstrom)

 

Not accepting the reality of the abuse is detrimental to the marriage restoration. Humility is needed -- the Lord can help the humble - the teachable.

 

So now, on to the process of bringing healing and breathing life into the marriage, towards an outrageously happy marriage. IF we can do it, You CAN do it!

 

Paul Hegstrom says, "Until he becomes accountable and responsible for his behavior and starts getting help in developing his character and his core, the abuse will not stop."

Jeremiah 6:14 "And they have made little of the wounds of my people, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace." Bible in Basic English) simply stating that in order to bring healing you must fully address the wounds.

 

Please do not get stuck in the muck of shame -- only satan wants you to do that. Admit that you have abused your wife. Believe that God is the answer and that the husband can bring healing to his wife IF he will humble himself, apologize properly as needed (LOVER), REPENT, and be PRO-active in bringing good things, good attitudes, kind words upon his wife. (exercising the Fruit of the Spirit as much as possible) In other words, become more Christlike, maturing in such a way as to honor God, the Maker of heaven and earth and us and marriage.

 

prayerfully,

June of

[biff]

Well,

 

 

I do not know where to start.This past weekend was another spiral down to the pit.What I thought would be a blessing to Claire ended up being totally hostile.To recap I set up somebody to help me do a few things around the house, Claire had been asking to get these done.We had a broken sink, which we had just replaced during a remodel job.One of my daughters by accident let the soap dish fall off the ledge and it cracked the porcelain.I called the corporate office and asked them if it should have broken so easily .They were kind enough to replace the sink at no charge.We also moved a 8 ft white board over to another room used for the childrens home schooling.After the projects were done I asked Claire if I could call the children on the phone that their Aunt "M" had given to them.I had not been calling the children on a regular basis, my reasoning was that I needed to concentrate on their Mom and I did not want her to think they were more important than her.Maybe this reasoning was wrong, Claire told me after the intensive that this was not right, that I needed to be calling the children everynight.So after the intensive we were seeing each other almost evernight, and I was seeing the children.But since then we have had some very bad bumps in the road.Claire ask that I only talk to her on the forum so that reduced the time I was able to talk to the children.So after saying all that, I assumed it would be good that I steped up to the plate and call the children at night.Since I am not supposed to call, text, or e-mail, I asked Claire if it would be ok if I called the children on the other phone.I just assumed because I was not to call her on her phone this would be the best solution.Well, it blew up from there.Claire said I had not called the children the whole (BLEEPING) time and she got so angry that I could not even talk to her. Then somehow the coversation swayed into I was not committed just like the secular therapist said I was not committed, this is what Claire has said.I know, I know who cares, WAA, WAA SAYS THE THE TODDLER.But the question I am asking the helpers is what could have I done differently?Please respond, I never know what to say, it seems like everthing I say is wrong.I know the helpers on the forum have formulated a opinion about me and my lack of commitment to this ministry and to bringing healing to Claire, which I deserve.I need to put on the forum what I am doing so I can get some feedback because my mind is reeling everytime Claire and I try to communicate.I do want Claire to be happy and if that means without me than so be it.It seems Claire has never been happy with me.

[J_W]

to help us help you, this is what is needed.

 

for you to go back to this posting and then reply your answers for us from all of the posts since that one ....

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/4584-lone-ranger/page__view__findpost__p__120342

 

and PLEASE use the "return" key so that it is not one continuously long paragraph --- those are difficult to read. thank you.

 

don't be a coward: pursue your bride with loving actions and listening ears ... and no more of this junk:

my mind is reeling everytime Claire and I try to communicate.I do want Claire to be happy and if that means without me than so be it.It seems Claire has never been happy with me.

however, if you refuse to change, she will definitely be happier without you

 

my .02

June of

[J_W]

why not get on the conference call RIGHT NOW???

 

w/Dory & Nemo

 

512-716-6531

981128#

[biff]

so, please tell us -- have you made "THE DECISION"

and if so, are you going to pursue your bride in trying to bring healing to her VERY WOUNDED heart??

 

or are you here on the forum for another reason?

 

 

that thread continues with MORE wonderful postings: http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3604-its-a-decision-and-other-pearls-husbands-need-to-read/

 

prayerfully,

June of

[biff]

June and Ward,

 

 

Yes I have made the decision to be accountable and teachable.Just need someone to show me the ropes.My way if definitely not working and I want a different way.My Claire is so very angry and wounded.

[biff]

Welcome on board Biff. Its now time for you to start owning your stuff. From here you will need to change your thinking. This is about Clare and you bringing healing to her for all of the distruction you have done to her. Your last rant was icing on things for her so you need to have some real change in you if you want to have a chance to win her heart. Are you ready to be a REAL MAN or continue to be a wining whimp?

 

If you have not called Joel yet you need to do it now and start getting on the mens calls.

 

If you are willing to learn we will all help you.

 

Steve

[biff]

Steve,

 

 

You asked the question if I am ready to be a real man and stop wining, Yes to that question. I need to help heal my wife's heart. Wining my wife's heart seems impossile right now but I know I need to own my stuff so Claire's heart can heal.I wll be on every Men's call from now on.

[Claire]

Well,

 

 

I do not know where to start.This past weekend was another spiral down to the pit.What I thought would be a blessing to Claire ended up being totally hostile.To recap I set up somebody to help me do a few things around the house, Claire had been asking to get these done.We had a broken sink, which we had just replaced during a remodel job.One of my daughters by accident let the soap dish fall off the ledge and it cracked the porcelain.I called the corporate office and asked them if it should have broken so easily .They were kind enough to replace the sink at no charge.We also moved a 8 ft white board over to another room used for the childrens home schooling.After the projects were done I asked Claire if I could call the children on the phone that their Aunt "M" had given to them.I had not been calling the children on a regular basis, my reasoning was that I needed to concentrate on their Mom and I did not want her to think they were more important than her.Maybe this reasoning was wrong, Claire told me after the intensive that this was not right, that I needed to be calling the children everynight.So after the intensive we were seeing each other almost evernight, and I was seeing the children.But since then we have had some very bad bumps in the road.Claire ask that I only talk to her on the forum so that reduced the time I was able to talk to the children.So after saying all that, I assumed it would be good that I steped up to the plate and call the children at night.Since I am not supposed to call, text, or e-mail, I asked Claire if it would be ok if I called the children on the other phone.I just assumed because I was not to call her on her phone this would be the best solution.Well, it blew up from there.Claire said I had not called the children the whole (BLEEPING) time and she got so angry that I could not even talk to her. Then somehow the coversation swayed into I was not committed just like the secular therapist said I was not committed, this is what Claire has said.I know, I know who cares, WAA, WAA SAYS THE THE TODDLER.But the question I am asking the helpers is what could have I done differently?Please respond, I never know what to say, it seems like everthing I say is wrong.I know the helpers on the forum have formulated a opinion about me and my lack of commitment to this ministry and to bringing healing to Claire, which I deserve.I need to put on the forum what I am doing so I can get some feedback because my mind is reeling everytime Claire and I try to communicate.I do want Claire to be happy and if that means without me than so be it.It seems Claire has never been happy with me.

 

About calling the children, you implied that I was preventing you from a relationship with you and you also said that you've been focusing on me the past 5 plus months which clearly isn't true. I clearly told you how that conversation could have been handled differently, but you didn't. You than raked me over the coals on Sunday for an hour and a half to interrogate the children when they got in the car with you. No wonder they don't feel the desire to talk to you tonight. They said all you ask is, "What did you do today?" They think you're just being nosey and don't care about them. You are the one who told me you weren't committed. How could any wife be happy about that? Today, I finally took my wedding band off. You clearly are confused, which you admitted. You clearly aren't in love with me, which you have told me that you've hated me.

 

I asked if you'd be on the conference call tonight and you haven't responded. I've been told not to communicate on here and than to communicate with you on here. This is the only way that I feel safe chronicling our downward spiraling marriage.