Diamondlady's thread

[diamondlady]

I'm new to this forum after skulking around for 3 years. Not sure why I didn't join, but now I am. I am a 54 year old married woman with 4 grown children and 4 grandchildren.

[MaryJane]

Welcome! Why don't you go ahead and start a thread? I did. The support is wonderful, no matter how "things" work out!

 

Just pick a title and start a new topic there. If you feel like you're in the wrong section, Looney will gladly move you. Just do it! I love seeing Canadians here getting help and encouragement.

 

(See where I live?)

[diamondlady]

After 33 years together and 32 years of marriage I had a mental breakdown this spring. Many things came to a head, but the largest was that my husband refuses to tell me that he loves me. I started keeping track 8 years ago on our anniversary, but it had been a way of life before that for a couple of years also.

I love him. But I have now reached the point of telling him to read the books, book us in for the intensive, take a baby step forward. DO SOMETHING! If this doesn't happen I have decided that I may have to sell my house in the spring . I can’t right now as I’m in the middle of a reno (no he won’t help as I’m not doing the color that he wants/I’m changing thing that he doesn’t want me to etc )and move on. I don't want to divorce him, but I won't live with him like this. There is no legal separation here other than not living together for 2 years.

I never thought that I, positive person that I was, would ever become bitter and angry with all in my life. But I did. When I was crying for nothing at work for the 2nd day in a row I decided to take a long cruise and restore my sanity. Ahh, Panama. Peace. Wait, I digress. I told him that I was either to go insane or that I was going to try the vacation to get back to me. I said that he could come along but pay his own way. That this vacation would be on my terms. And it was, sleeping a lot, getting up when I wanted/needed to/ resting the rest of the time, lots of prayer, worship time and peace in the spa. He was resigned to it after I wouldn’t back down and change to the old me that would follow along with all that he wanted to do. I told him just before going that he had two choices to make, either step up and man up and do something in our marriage, or he was choosing for us to live as friends only. No expectation of any marriage responsibilities. Divide the costs and live together.

Well, you guessed it, no answer was forthcoming after the cruise (or still). He must have thought that I was insane or joking. He did tell me that he will not be controlled, that I will not be allowed to manipulate him! That he is the man in the family not me. That God made him the head, not me. That I can stop my woman’s libber ways. That I’ve changed in the last couple of years. Wow, control him into working on his own marriage? How awful.

He never says anything that can later be pointed back to him. His passive/aggressive behavior is epic. If I say that he hurt me by .....whatever, he said that he only did that because I .....whatever. point finger, point finger. Wife if wrong, wrong, wrong. If only wife will change then he could love me, behave better etc. Baloney

Well, we have been back 2 months and nothing. ! Now But I am seeing clearer though.

So I dropped the boom (should have read a few posts here before that). Either he steps up or it's a divorce. I can't take any more! I will be loved! I require it! I am worth it. It's reasonable, and necessary to my wellbeing. If he won’t then I don’t care! He can pick either side. Divorce or marriage. Friendship or marriage. I won’t fall back into my depression! I refuse, it was a bad scary place.

Finally, the other day he at least said that he wants me in his life. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. A glimmer of hope. (we girls are so easy to please) So, books and marriage intensive are what I have said. I've just bought the books and told him that the audio books are available. (he has trouble reading, but listening is easier) .

Should I buy them for him and give them to him, or wait and see if he steps up?

I've asked for the time off for the Sept intensive, in case he decides that he will come, and will likely receive it as I have hundreds of hours of overtime. Unfortunately its right during the date of my 2nd cancer surgery. But truly, this is more important to me! He finally, after 10 years said the wanted me in his life. That’s huge! Well, it is to me. Perhaps it’s manipulation, but I didn’t think so.

I want a great Godly marriage, with him! But he has to change! I can have the cancer removed at the end of Oct. I believe that the bitterness, disappointment, and silent wearing down of my defences are the biggest cancer that I have in my life. It has crippled me! The other cancer is a 15 min removal that is easily done. This marriage is not!

 

[4evrHZdtr3]

Hi! diamondlady,

 

I like your name. There is a wonderful worship song from a very long time ago... and your name makes me think of it.

 

"Lord, You are more precious than silver,

Lord, You are more costly than gold,

"Lord, You are more beautiful than diamonds,

And nothing I desire compares to You!"

 

I just read your other post.. Looney can bring it over here so we can all read in one place and give you the support and help you need!

Until then,

4evr

[MaryJane]

Amen! Stick to your guns. Don't do as I have done, avoided making a firm either/or "offer".

 

I believe you're making the best decision for the most hopeful outcome! God bless you, Diamondlady!

[diamondlady]

So, update. Had a weekend away with a couple of my favorite teenagers. Came back, and no books had been bought. He asked me where to buy them. I said that I had sent him an email with info and also a text and that he needed to do that.

Decided that I have to take care of me first, so surgery is on for Sept 13.

Last night, for the first time in nearly 10 years, he said that he has always loved me and that he wants me in his life. melted inside. Outside I told him that he still needed to buy the books and go to the intensive with me in Oct as we can't do Sept because of the surgery.

I'm hoping that the intensive will be booked from the 9th of Oct to the 13th as we have a stat in Canada and we could have another day in Florida together.

Also, the 5th of Oct is our 33rd anniversary and that would be a great way to start the next 33 years.

Babysteps.

 

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

[Crystal]

I've been thinking about you this morning. I think you did excellent when your heart melted at his words. He has no idea what a miracle he could perform in his own marriage if he'd only say those three little words to you a dozen times a day every day. It could eventually melt his heart too by saying it over and over! But these guys refuse to do the simplest things sometimes. For me it was simple touch from my husband because he would never touch me unless he wanted sex. Now after about 5 years with this ministry I can tell my husband when I need a caress if he's not thinking of it on his own and he'll give me what I need...physical loving contact for reassurance. I do hope you let your husband know that you liked hearing the words and would like to hear it at least once a day!!! But at the same time, guard your heart. You did good not to let down your defences and instead you let him know exactly what he needs to do: Buy the books and read them! Good job!

[diamondlady]

So, Joel and Kathy have given me dates for the marriage intensive in Oct.  My husband said that he would go.  He hasn't downloaded or bought the books in the two weeks since I gave him the information.

He did ask me to come to Chapters last Sunday to buy them.  I told him that they were ministry books and wouldn't be available at the store.  Of course they weren't.  I reminded him that I had given him the info by email and by text.  He still hasn't bought them.  He now, tonight, said that he has checked out the website and that is why he is willing to go.

I found cheap flights,  when I told him he said lets book them.  I said that I needed his half of the money and he said, oh now we're going dutch?  I told him that I found the info, I sent it all to him, I found the flights, and that yes, he needs to pay for his half of the flights and intensive and hotels.  He picked and picked and tried to make me angry (he succeeded) and 40 min went by and still no action.

 

Now what?

[4evrHZdtr3]

WHY in the world would he think that you were going to pay for marriage help in a marriage he is destroying?

 

As the old saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!"

It sounds like your husband is an expert at saying whatever you want to hear and then doing whatever he wants to do anyway.

 

Are you and he together?

 

If so, your greatest strength and weapon right now is in changing how you see yourself- and then in giving him the choice to love and honor you or "reap the consequences." That is what most of us women never  want to do. We never allow our husbands or our children to clean up their own messes and pay the price for their mistakes. We have been trained to think that if we "do their dishes" we are showing love and we just enable them to keep right on taking!

 

We are afraid of losing their affection, approval or the entire relationship...

 

Find yourself and you will find your strength.. find what you need to do next...

[diamondlady]

Thank you 4evHZdtr3.

 

Yes we are together. In the house, but not the same room.

 

I actually gave him an ultimatum.  Either he buy the books and book himself for the marriage intensive which will prove to me the intention of change. Or next June (I have financial obligations til then) there I will be selling the house (he lost his half share to taxes) and a divorce happening.  Apparently he saw that I meant it and actually, begrudgingly, angrily, downloaded the books, bought the actual copies also and booked us for the Oct intensive. As he's basically broke, this was a stretch for him.Funny how he found the info when I refused to do it all for him.

 Praise God!

  I told him that I would not book anything until he did and that we definitely ARE going dutch.  He actually read the email about the intense this morning saying that the Sept intensive was changed to a week later. He came and asked me if I'd like to go then. It's been changed to a few days after my cancer surgery so I think that Oct is a better time for us as I don't think that I'll want to be travelling that soon. 

 

I have hope!  And, sensibly, I also have an extraction plan, separate finances, a good credit rating, a good job with paid cellphone and medical, my own car in my name, (that took some doing) and lots of support. It's taken a long time to get to this point in my head and heart and I sometimes backslide. At least now it's two steps forward and one back rather than two back and a babystep forward like before. 

 

I love him to bits and want to be with him forever, but as an equal not the doormat that I allowed myself to be for so long.

 

Today I feel strong, but tomorrow? 

Thanks for the support. I'll need it.

Edited August 16, 2013 by diamondlady

[MaryJane]

Good!

 

Lord, our God, bless this lady and keep her strong as she rests in You. In Jesus' Name!

[Looney_Tunes]

Hi Diamondlady! Welcome to the forum! Sorry it took me so long to find you.

 

I actually gave him an ultimatum.  Either he buy the books and book himself for the marriage intensive which will prove to me the intention of change. Or next June (I have financial obligations til then) there I will be selling the house (he lost his half share to taxes) and a divorce happening.

 

 

Good girl! That's exactly what we would have told you to do!

 

People do not change until it becomes too uncomfortable to stay the same. As 4evr pointed out earlier, we often are not willing - or in the case of many Christian women, we are not given permission by our church - to make our husband uncomfortable. So he keeps on doing what he's always done, because there is nothing motivating him to change. Unfortunately for us, men change from the outside in - they need some external pressure to make changes, they change the behavior, and then their heart changes. It's exactly the opposite of the way God wired us.

 

Just take care of yourself until you get to the intensive. Joel and Kathy usually recommend that you just focus on both of you getting there in one piece LOL. If he does something that hurts you, you should certainly let him know, but shelve the big issues until you get there.

 

We'll be praying for your surgery.

[diamondlady]

Thank you all who have posted to me.  I need your encouragement so much.  We took two of our grandsons camping this weekend. It was to be a time to connect with them and also to watch my brother complete the biking portion of a triathalon/relay.  Interestingly (though this had been booked for two months) he said that his cousin and husband were in the same campground. (I don't know them) All was going quite well and we put the boys to bed and had his cousin over and chatted for about an hour.  The next morning I got up at 7:30 (from my separate bed) got the boys up, dressed, my shower,coffee made, breakfast made ,, cleaned up the kitchen...OOps tried to cook and to clean up the kitchen but apparently I was doing it wrong. I should use tongs, not a fork. I should turn the heat down as I'll wreck his pan, I should rinse the dishes before washing them...on and on and on.

I walked out, took my coffee and went outside and left him to finish.

Well, he didn't. he got his breakfast and didn't feed the kids. He got his shower and then came out and said 'why are you out here? Why do you take things so personally? I was just trying to keep our things in good condition' 

Baloney. He was trying to put me in 'my place' and he knows it. He'll never admit it though. Probably not even to himself.

Then the icing on the cake, and very,  very nasty icing it was, was that on the morning of the triathlon I had told him that we had to leave by 9:30.  We had promised the boys ice cream on the way down to where we had agreed to cheer for my brother. It was a 40-45 min drive and we had to be there for 10:45-50 as that's when he said that he would be going by.  At 9:25 HE GOT IN THE SHOWER!   I got the boys up, packed up, dressed, fed, took care of myself and packed up what I could in the trailer.  As it's his trailer, he is the one that knows how to put up the awning, pack up etc.  I yelled at him and was crying.  He said, "I'm rushing to get myself ready."  Really? I did everything else, I was up for 2 hours and now he's getting HIMSELF ready? This is one of the things that we went up for and he knew that we had to leave by 9:30.  He finally got his  rear in gear and ran around like a chicken with his head cut off.  I sat and watch him as he 'never needs any help', 'has so much to do in so little time', is 'always the last one to know anything', etc. martyrdom.  I sent the boys to the playground so that they didn't have to witness all of this dysfunction.  Finally at 10:02 we were on the road. At 10:55 we pulled in only to be told that he had passed a couple of minutes before. The whole way he was saying'why are you angry?, why aren't you talking to me?, that car in front of us is going to make us late he's going so slow....Argh!

When I saw my best friend at the agreed upon spot she said that she has never seen me so angry in the 41 1/2 years of friendship.  Quiet anger, seething.  What he did was purposeful and there is no way that I will ever believe anything else.

Passive aggressive?  Yes, I think so.

 

Sorry for the rant people.  This still makes me angry and it's been over two days.

Edited August 27, 2013 by diamondlady

[Looney_Tunes]

My ex did something very similar to what you described on a camping trip many, many years ago. We were to have dinner with my cousins, aunt, and uncle, and we missed it. I was angry about that for a long time, especially since I didn't see my uncle again before he passed away. I feel your pain.

 

Next time - if there is a next time - put the boys in the car whenever you need to leave and go. He can sit there by himself and pack up the trailer. I wish I would have done that back then. Now I wouldn't hesitate, but I hadn't really learned how to deal with the passive aggressive behavior then.

 

When he is micromanaging your cooking, smile sweetly and tell him that since you seem unable to do anything properly, you'll leave it to him to finish up. Then go for a walk, go to your room, or whatever. The point is to stop interacting with him when he is treating you badly. You don't deserve it, and you don't have to put up with it.

 

I can't wait to hear what he thinks of the intensive! I think he's in for quite an awakening.

[diamondlady]

If I had had my car with me I would have packed them up and gone.  Unfortunately, we had gone in his truck to pull the trailer.  I won't drive the big truck. racks of tools etc on it. However, I did tell him that I would take my own car camping from now on and meet him there in case I needed to go anywhere that he wasn't willing to go. Or I would make sure that I had a ride with someone else when I had to leave.

 

I'm learning, oh so slowly, but I am learning. 

 

I think that if he reads the books (don't think that he will) , that he will go to the intensive only because 'he'll look bad to the kids if he doesn't' and 'the money is already paid out'.  I don't, however, think that he'll see that he has done anything wrong.  It's always my fault for everything.  But he's ever so clever to say just enough for me to know what he's saying, but not enough that I can quote him.  He's forever saying, 'did I say that? or are you putting words in my mouth?' It's so annoying.

 

Biding my time until the intensive.  He hasn't come up with his flight money yet, so no flights are booked.  Perhaps I'll book mine anyways and go on a cruise instead if he doesn't actually attend as I can't go to the intensive without him.  Dang, I hate to be at the mercy of what he will or won't do.  My life is on hold.  I have one foot firmly in the 'marriage side of life' and one foot firmly in the 'ready to extract' side of life.  Part of me looks forward to the peace of it being over. sigh.

 

Sorry, ranting again.

[Looney_Tunes]

Rant away! That's why we're here.

 

Go ahead and book your flight. If he refuses to go, J&K will work something out with you. They will probably let you attend anyway, or refund your half, or something. I can promise that they will not just leave you hanging - that's not who they are. So you're not at his mercy at all. You're going to FL and having a good time, with him or without him.

[diamondlady]

Thanks, you made me tear up.  Nice to know that there actually may be an end to the madness. I'm so tired of it all. 

I had him buy the books and pay for his part of the intensive.  I figure if he goes I'll pay my part there. I know that he wants me to book both of the flights, but I'm not paying for his part. 

sigh, big sigh.

[diamondlady]

So the latest

We have booked our flights separately. I insisted.

He has bought the book and read 1/2 of the first one (12 days until we leave) sigh. He claims he's a slow reader, 6 weeks?  He needs quiet, (ask for quiet reading time, no interruptions)

We are alone in the house, so turn off the phone and read as I do.

I've booked and paid for the hotel.

I've booked and paid for the car.

He's paid for his marriage intensive and I told him that he had to pay for mine when we got there as I had already paid for so much.  He lost it.  We can't afford it, he says. It's a bad time of year in his construction business to go away.  Etc, etc.   I listened and blasted back:

That if he didn't want to come, don't. If he didn't want a marriage, leave. That I was sick and tired of being the one, year after year, to read all the marriage books and implement only to be told to stop manipulating and trying to control him.

We went to two Christian marriage weekends and he never implemented anything, at all.

 

So, last nights tirade didn't get either of us anywhere.  I told him that I didn't care any more.  That if he can't even tell me he loves me ,(after 10 years of not telling me,) when he knows and has been told time and again that that is the first thing that I need;  that that is my love language.  then to heck with it.  I'll finish renoing the house and sell in the spring.

 He said that he wrote it on our anniversary card didn't he?

btw, it was our 33rd anniversary on Saturday.

Yes, I said, you always make sure to write things where other people can read them, but you won't tell me.  Then he said that if I would only......(blah blah blah. same old same old.

conditional love crap) he would be able to.

I love him, why?

I love him and he doesn't believe me.

He calls me a liar, cheat, thief.  That he can't trust me.  I've never cheated on him, used money in a wrong manner, taken drugs, gambled or anything bad. I did have to lie to him during his 2 year long depression after his dad died in order to get money for food, gas etc. He told me to take the money and pay the private school and I took some and bought gas and food.  Four kids at home, him depressed, me with no income or access to any money or credit made for an interesting time in our lives indeed.

He threatened me with divorce a couple of times a year from when I was pregnant with our 3rd child.  He tells me now that everyone says things that they don't mean when they are angry.

 

NOT!  I assured him that anything I said to him, I meant. Unless I came in and apologized to him for going overboard (as I have done) everything that I say, I mean.

So last night I assured him that I will sell the house in June unless I see tangible evidence of him moving forward in our marriage.  Reading the books, coming to the intensive, applying what we learn there etc.  That daily phone calls will be necessary for each of us after the intensive because we 'just don't know what we are doing' and need babysteps and hand holding.

That I want to understand him, and have him understand me. That I require him to tell me that he loves me.  That if he doesn't love me after 34 years together then to heck with it all.  Leave.

 

Anyways, I tried to keep it low key until the intensive and failed horribly last night.

I'm coming, not sure if he'll come.  At this moment I don't care a whole lot.  Yeah, I do.

[MaryJane]

That's ok. Now you can allow your words to simmer in his mind. Actually, I admire you for being able to "tell it like it is".

 

What intensive are you attending? This month's?

 

I suggest that you don't give him any more words, except those that are absolutely necessary. Go about calmly getting ready for the intensive. Become an actress, in other words, with God's help. "Act" calm and confident. In this way, he will have to make a decision all by himself -- concerning the intensive, concerning reading the books, and concerning the marriage.

 

You have made yourself perfectly clear. Your next step would be to keep your word (ie. re selling the house, etc. if he doesn't give you the tangible evidence you've asked for).

 

Simple. (Heh heh.)

 

God bless you dear diamond lady!

[Looney_Tunes]

I was gonna say what MJ said, but she already did.

 

It'll be interesting to see what he does.

[diamondlady]

Thanks for your words of encouragement MaryJane and Looney_Toons. Yes, we are attending this month's intensive.

Praise report!  I realized that I hadn't given an update on my cancer surgery.  The report came back that all the cancer was removed! Praise God.  The wound is healing quickly and well.

 

Sure wish I had of read your words before we had another go round last night.

It started calm, hit a crescendo and then ended calmly. 

I asked him what he expected to get out of the intensive and he said that he didn't know.  So I told him that then he probably wouldn't get much out of it.  Wrong, I know.  sigh.

Then I told him that I expected to be helped to make babysteps towards the marriage  that we had always wanted.  That we just didn't know how to do the work towards it.  That we had messed up a lot in the last 34 years together and that that would take a while to overcome.  And then, only if we were both in the 'same boat, rowing in the same direction' (his favorite thing to tell me that he would like to have with me but no steps towards how) would we make progress towards the goal of an outrageously happy marriage.   sigh, can't wait for the work to begin.

 

He asked me how long it would take and I said that some couples on the forum and in the videos have turned around quickly 6 months to a year, but that they probably have been married less time and have built up less bad habits etc. I said that I anticipated a really rough 6 months during our 'correction and direction time'. Then a year or two to work on it with less correction and direction until we could actually stand on our own two feet. He said that he'd do what was asked of him only if he agreed.  I said that as long as it's in line with God's word I'd do it. Period. So, we ended calmly.  

 

I went in the master bedroom to get clothes for work today and it was cleaned up! (we had been laying laminate flooring last Aug when he decided to stop and the stuff has been there since. Yes 2012).  Ah, I said in my head, this can only be because I told him that our sons-in-law and our two boys were coming over next week to lay the floor for me as I had had enough of wood floors.  He had said last night that he hadn't had time.  That he was waiting for me to pick up a piece of stair nosing so that he could lay the floor.   That I had brought one home, but it had been the wrong kind. I exploded back at him for that.  Do I know what kind of stair nosing you want, do you know where the store is? That it had been 14 months with no flooring because he was waiting for me to pick up a 40 inch piece of wood?  I don't think so.

 

Since then I'd had a laundry room built for myself (last room in the house not finished for 24 years), fixed the walls and then painted the whole inside of the house, painted some of the ceilings, painted the outside window trims, trimmed the neighbors hedge trees encroaching on our yard, taken care of the gardens, cut the grass, painted the window casements white, laid tile downstairs in the new laundry room. Had our son take out a wall of an unused downstairs pantry that we didn't need any more in order  to make a workout room for both of us. I still have to take out 20 cut tiles in order to continue the floor tile properly and I've put that off for a month.  I bartered with one of the painters at work and he came over and painted our upstairs doors, bifolds and main bathroom vanity for me. bye bye oak and hello white and brushed nickel. I also helped a friend diet (i.e. ladies you know. The friend who says please help me keep on track as I have a wedding to go to in 2 months) Two months after being successful she called and said that she is giving me a Carrera marble counter top for our main bathroom. I've ordered new lights for the house. By the way, none of these things were 'husband approved'  so I have had to buy everything, do the work myself and pay for everything with my pay. I have no access to 'his money', 'his credit card' etc.  If stuff around here isn't 'husband approved' no help comes from the husband.

 

He did, however, install a new kitchen tap set that I bought 2 weeks ago and that was nice.

He took off the large mirror in the bathroom so that I could tile, paint and have new medicine cabinets built by one of our contractors at work.

He also put up a ceiling fan that he knew that I'd like as it went with the new furniture better and he got a deal for $10 brand new. He's getting to be a good bargain shopper!

Yesterday he took out one of the air conditioners in the master bedroom.

Together we pulled out a tree in the front yard last weekend that had been encroaching on our front walkway.  We both wanted it out, we both did the work and we had a good time doing it. 

That's how I want our marriage to end up.

Rowing the same boat in the same direction. Working together on common goals that we have learned to compromise on. Enjoying the journey!

 

End of diatribe.  Thanks for letting me vent.  It will save my tongue from being bitten off. lol

 

Have a wonderful day people.  Thanks for being here.  I hope that in the future I/we will be able to help others.

. 

[diamondlady]

I went home last night and my husband was half done laying the flooring that he had put off for 14 months.  Wow. I was happy and a bit ticked at the same time.  But I thanked him for working on it, asked if he needed any help and made us dinner.

Today he took the day off work to finish.  I'm blown away.

[diamondlady]

So, can I get in touch with Looney tunes?  Or Mary Jane or someone that can help?Some stuff is gong down and we're supposed to be heading to intensive Sun.

I need some help today with how to handle.

Edited October 17, 2013 by diamondlady

[4evrHZdtr3]

Feel free to "talk" here on the forum. People are watching and reading..

[MaryJane]

Yes! Post here and speak up on the conference call tonight, even if your husband refuses to get on.

 

You could even try phoning or texting Kathy's cell.