New here, don't know if this is where to post this:

[overwhelmed]

Hopefully I picked the right forum... I dont know if my husband is resisting, refusing, agreeing or faking. I dont know if I am coming or going or where I am on the map. I am trying to sort this out because I do not want to cave in from anxiety or manipulation or emotional fatigue. I am emotionally worn down.

 

My husband and I have been married 11 years. They have all been difficult, the past 4 more difficult. I have left a few times these last few years. The last time, I was gone for over 7 months.... I returned after the blame wore me down. I was back home, giving it my best shot. As it usually goes, all is fantastic, unless I notice, out loud, when my husband breaks his word. The second I say anything, the struggle begins (much like I read about in the first book). The battle ends with it all on me. Then, hes this great guy he believes himself to be until next time. Repeat, endlessly.

 

Here is the behavior he repeats over and over, that I speak out about (there are probably others just as "not ok" but this is the one that he hasnt gotten me to overlook). It will go something like this: he will have plans to golf, he will be home around 1. He doesnt come home at 1, or 2 or 3 or 4. I will call to make sure all is ok. He wont answer. Or call (only times he wont call or answer are these). He will come home around 10, drunk... loud. Sometimes mad, if he thinks I may be.

 

Or it could look like this: he will have a dinner for work at 7 with clients. He will be home arond 10. Hes not. Come midnight, no call, no answer. He will come home at 3 am, drunk, loud and obnoxious, cant talk or walk. But creates chaos because he wont just pass out either.

 

Or it looks like this: hes out of town for a conference. He will have a dinner and will call me afterward. He doesnt. Nor will he answer. He may call finally, at 4 am, drunk, cant understand him and will become mean because i have to say "what..." over and over because I cannot understand him. Not to mention, he will have told me he will not be going out after dinner.

 

For 11 years, this is what I have asked him to STOP. It isnt weekly, or monthly. It is consistently though. It is more often than not, in town or out of town for work, when he makes plans (golf, a quick drink with friends or out of town...). It would look like an affair but, it isnt. Its that he is so into himself, impressing whoever is around and alcohol is involved, and he does not care about anything else. He isnt accountable to anything and doesnt care to deal with anything that could say, "you cNt do this..." so he figures, "oh iwill deal with her tomorrow" which means "make it all her fault later." When i say "not an affair, I mean he does not have any on going relationship. Does he flirt? Yes. Misrepresent who he is? Yes (to me and those around when hes pulling one of these stunts) and do i put it past him to have a one night stand when out of town? Nope. He will say otherwise of course. I do not have proof of a one night stand but i know just the same. When hes really pushed it, (caught in a lie) he will admit to a lessor crime and stick to it. But now a days, its all in my head, he doesnt do that, i am just crazy. Over the years I have told him what this behavior says to me.... so why he would want to put himself in a position tl say that to me, is sick. He used to promise to not do it again... until he would. Now he wont even do that. He will "try" not to after i go on and on. He cant promise because he isnt perfect, he says (takes percection to not do something?) Which to me, is just him not commiting because he knows he will.

 

3 weeks ago, he did the first one (golf, home at 1...). I had been back home for 4 months and it was his 3rd time doing it. Upon getting home, he fell. Broke his collar bone requiring surgery. Two days after his surgery I left. The struggle he put up, I was exhausted with (like in the book... he does this "thing" any time he hurt me. A need? "I need you to be who you say you are?" He doesnt think hes the type of person who does the same thing over and over for 11 years. "I need you to come home and not go out to bars" this is crazy... as if this is an abnormal, huge need? In my eyes, its a given.

 

Since I left three weeks ago, hes promised to care about my feelings because i am important... he will work on not doing thos but if he does, he will "take responsibility" and care about my feelings. This is his insincere promise to me.

 

But at the same time as that very mediocre and odd promise, he has yelled, blamed, turned around on me, justified, minimized, debated, resisted and made implied threats. Is vague, continually says "forget it, I'm done" and other things he knows have created a lot of insecurity for me.

 

I found the book "man of her dreMs/woman of his" a week ago. I read it and was overwhelmed. EXACTLY what i have tried to tell him, over and over and over. But he is always right and i am wrong (only about my needs and feelings). I asked him to read it. He did. I prayed it aould reach him... i prayed it would get in him just enough to sound sincere. To be sincere. He said he liked it, he was vague... so i asked, "well what about an intensive, i think it might be good for us. Wouldnt hurt, what do you think?" He said "ok, I'm in..." i couldnt believe it! Really? Hes in? Yes, hes in. (This was in text). An hour later, i called him to hear him say hes in. No answer. He called back at 11. Clear he had been drinking. I told him i thought he was at home? That ONE question unleashed the beast. I had no right to ask him where hes been (just an hour ago, he was "in" for three weeks, he will care about my feelings, taken back... 24 hours prior, he finished book....). On and on came his blame and turn around which is opposite message of "im in"

Today? He will work on it however i want if i go home. Now. If not, hes done waiting. (Hes been waiting?) And i have to not leave. He puts it that i leave as if that means I am a bad person. He cant see that his behavior INVITES me to leave. Hes more stuck on what my leaving does to himand says about me to him.

 

Its exhausting. Living with the changing ways is exhausting. He wants us home, forget it. He cares about my feelings, except when it matters most. He will try, he wont unless i am home. He wants to show me I am important to him...he cant unless I am home. Right when I soften, ok... "its this way...." wham, he takes it all back. Of course in his mind, i do this to him.

 

Ive no idea where to start... or is it stop? Step off? Or on? Head spinning!!

[MaryJane]

You will have to be the one to lay down the ground rules. NOW, is your time! NOW, when you have his attention.

 

My suggestion is you tell him you are not coming home until he has called Joel and arranged for the two of you to go to an intensive.

 

He has kept you dangling long enough! This is not loving and cherishing one's wife which is what your husband likely promised to do, 11 years ago!

 

Have you discovered the conference calls yet? They are great! Every night except Fridays. The info is on the web site. You can listen in without speaking -- or -- you may feel free to speak up and introduce yourself. These calls can be very encouraging.

 

Welcome!

[overwhelmed]

I have no problem laying them, I am lost on how to handle what will happen next. He will refuse and say he will work on it if I am home but if I am not, there isn't anything to work on. He will insist I am misleading him blah blah... telling me I just dont want to be there and am to dishonest to say it.... throw in more... hes convinced its true.

[4evrHZdtr3]

Welcome Overwhelmed..

 

I agree with MaryJane but honestly, it seems like your husband is an alcoholic. Certainly all the behaviors and crazymaking words and behaviors fit the pattern. And you can't really move further along until that is addressed. So, what can you do to get support for yourself - take care of yourself while you are deciding which way this needs to go?

 

The counsel of this ministry is proven and it works! but if the brain- and heart - is clouded with alcohol, that's an additional problem that should be looked at.

[Looney_Tunes]

I agree with 4evr.

 

You are certainly welcome here anytime you want to post. This forum is a great place to let out the hurt and frustration! However, there is not much we can do about your marriage until your husband's alcoholism is addressed.

 

Find a chapter of Al Anon. They will help you learn effective ways of enforcing your boundaries. They deal with this all the time.

[overwhelmed]

I assure you guys he has no need to address alcohol issues. He has a big problem with his character and the disconnect is in his thoughts of who he thinks he is vs actions repeated that show otherwise. Why does he end up having drank too much? His need to impress far exceeds his need to drink. No joke. This isnt denial on my part. Viewing it as an alcohol problem first sure would be.

[MaryJane]

Overwhelmed, no matter what your husband's "problem" is, you will need to decide how much abuse you are willing to live with.  The time has come, I say, to take a definite stand.  Draw a line in the sand and all that.

 

For right now, I think it might be a good idea to call in to this ministry's conference line tonight.  Introduce yourself and ask for the moderators' input.  I think it will be Joel and Kathy themselves who moderate the call tonight.  This may give you the oomph you need!

 

1-443-453-0034  Access code:  544475

 

God bless you!

[overwhelmed]

Good idea! I will. His problem, made me kinda giggle.... at myself, this is good yes? He is perfect and its me. So I should say my problem with his perfection. Thanks again, I will call tonight.

[MaryJane]

Edited February 1, 2014 by MaryJane

[MaryJane]

Ok it's John and Susan moderating the call tonight. They're good too! Were you able to get on the call tonight?

[4evrHZdtr3]

I assure you guys he has no need to address alcohol issues. .

 

Of course, with your first hand knowledge you understand him better than any of us. However, when that much drunkenness is involved, it usually doesn't matter which came first - his charcter disconnect with need to impress (narcissism) or his drinking - the alcohol cloud will need to be removed for him to begin to address the issues.

 

If my core problem is that i am cold and so I cover up with a blanket.. and then the house catches on fire in the middle of winter and I am being forced to throw off the covers and run outside in the snow in the middle of the night..I am still going to be cold and miserable for awhile but at least I won't be dead... burned up in my own false security blanket. I will be able to assess and look around for other resources to warm myself.

[JoelandKathy]

Hi Overwhelmed,

 

We trust that you spoke to John and Susan last night? Tonight is Brian and Charlotte, then Looney and Timothy Paul on Monday. Tuesday night, Kathy will be on the line. 

 

At this point, since you are out of the home, plan to stay out until you two come to an intensive. The next intensive is March 19-22. So you two will be separated for  a while. That is ok though. You have seen in the past that getting back together without genuine change and committment on his part, only leads to more frustration.

 

If you can get him to leave the home so you can move back in and he is then on the outside, looking in, that would be the best set up for coming to the intensive. Then he has to earn his way back in the house and relationship.

 

Let's focus on getting him here. You know what he does. He goes out, gets drunk, ignores you and probably has affairs. So for the moment, get him to register for the intensive and then pretty much ignore what he does. At the intensive, we will talk to him about getting checked for an STD and we'll deal with the drinking and other issues.  You are not going to make much progress with him that will be genuine until the intensive. So save yourself some frustrations and just ignore him. (except for getting him to register for the intensive.)  If he will get on some calls, that is great too - but at this point, he is not going to receive calls for change from you.

 

Other programs for alcohol abuse are second options. The straight line, direct path to healing for a man, is learning to focus on and loving his wife. If he will attend an alcohol program as an expression of his commitment and love to you, then that is great. Again though, let's work on that at the intensive and thereafter.

 

Give Kathy a call to firm up these things and then lean on the group calls and the forum for ongoing help with your commitment and focus on this path.

[JoelandKathy]

Kathy's phone number is 386-334-7873  

 

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[overwhelmed]

Hi,

 

Unfortunately, three minutes before the call, my son had a seziure. I spent the night in the hospital. I will call in tonight. I have called Kathy, twice last week and no call back, I am sure you guys are very busy. I was hoping to do a weekend with you guys in our area as I read about on the page regarding services. Our son is medically fragile, he is with me at all times (at least within distance I am available at all times) during this chapter of his life/our life. I understand the alcohol issue, he has done treatments before when trying to convince me he is trying. Narcissism is a good word for what controls it. He can stay away and clear from alcohol until his narcissim gets in the way of that. That isnt limited to just alcohol related situations. I will keep reading, learning, trying, praying and ignore him as best i can through the process.

[Looney_Tunes]

I have a medically fragile kid too, so I get the issues.

 

At this point, I think the most constructive thing you can do is to figure out where your line is, and then figure out how to enforce it. You can't make your husband do anything. However, people change when it's too uncomfortable to stay the same. If it starts becoming uncomfortable for your husband to do these things, then 1 of 2 things will happen - he'll change, or he'll walk away from the relationship.

 

Are you at the point where you can accept it if he walks away? If you're not, that's OK, but it will determine what you are and are not willing to do.

 

Let's hash a few things out and see if we can come up with a plan, OK? How can you make it uncomfortable for your husband to stay out all night drinking?

[overwhelmed]

He hates when I leave. Why do I leave instead of making him leave? Because he would like it, have less responsibility and come and go as he pleased while feeling as though he was "taking care of us." He would love for me to be in the home, he wants to know where I am and that I am still under his thumb. Am i ready for him to walk away? I guess not. What I am ready for is him to actively work with someone to help him get himself grown up. He said he would like to work on it for us and be willing to work with whoever I choose (i wont let him choose, he will fool a counselor, have done that before and it makes it worse). I think i am willing to try if i thought we had the right help. Otherwise, I will walk away. Hes abusive and i am just ready for a change of how its worked on.

[KathyandJoel]

Hi Overwhelmed,

 

I have you on the phone right now....actually, your talking to Joel . lol

 

He is checking the calendar for when it might be best to come to ya'lls place to do an intensive.

[overwhelmed]

Hi kathy and Joel,

 

After getting with my husband, the weekend we discussed doesn't work for one reason that is actually, excuseable... his oldest daughter, from a previous

marriage, will be in the area from college for a sporting event for which she is involved. He was even apologetic to me, because he knows this is important to me and he is, at least acting, as if it is to him as well. He has started apologizing as described in the book. He has the words down at times but the music isn't in his heart yet.... if that makes sense. I respond warmly at his attempts as it was said I should. I will still put down the deposit.... can we find another equally workable date to set and look forward to? That was the only weekend in feb that had something for us. Let me know and we can plan from there. I am greatly looking forward to this step. Thank you very much.

[JoelandKathy]

Give us a call. His daughter coming into town is a good reason, by the way.

 

 I am wondering out loud, if his daughter is going to be in town to visit with him all weekend? or just for the sporting event? We love sporting events..  If she is going to be available all weekend to visit though, then yes, we will need to find another time. If she is coming to town for the game and then going back home, perhaps we can work the game into our time there and you three still have time to go out to dinner or something by yourselves after the game.  

 

If Valentine's weekend is definitely out, then we can make it for the next week, February 20-23.

[overwhelmed]

The only time he will be able to see her, is during the event (she rows/crew) which takes place on the saturday about 45 min away. If this sounds good, then great, we can keep the weekend the same! You guys sure put it in perspective, how simple! This sounds very easy and workable. Great then, all stays the same as planned, I am looking forward to it!

[KathyandJoel]

Hi there Overwhelmed,

 

Sounds fun, how long is the actual rowing event?

[KathyandJoel]

We just looked the event up online. That is really cool. I've watched that on tv before. Awesome!

[overwhelmed]

Great. She goes to college out ofstate and is coming here for it with her team. My husband has asked her to let him know today what time she races. She cant leave the event but he only stays for her races, not all of them. So i will post back with that info and we can go from there whether or

not there is any need to change the weekend. I am thinking there

May not be any need to do so now that you guys said it may not be any issue for any thing.

[KathyandJoel]

 

All is well here....will look forward to coming your way and helping ya'll get your

"OUTRAGEOUSLY HAPPY MARRIAGE"

[overwhelmed]

Hey guys, I submitted the deposit. I tried to purchase two in my cart but after I hit submit, I think it only purchased one based on the confirmation email I got shortly after. I will purchase another if thats the case per my talk with joel regarding deposit. Is there an email address I can email you guys directions/details, etc?

 

Thanks again, I am looking forward to learning.