EXHAUSTED, BURNED-OUT MOM NEEDS SOUND, BIBLICAL COUNSEL

[posyplanter]

Hello y'all, I've never posted before on this type of forum, but this one sounds pretty real, like I might get some advice that an actual person can follow...........A friend recently told us about your ministry;[have known about you for three days,] so I have LOTS of questions; hope y'all can have patience with me. First, I'm noticing that you don't buy into the conventional "submissive wife fixes everything" ideas that are so prevalent in Christian circles. I've recently read the book Captivating by John and Stasi Eldridge, [and cried through a lot of it,] which was a real eye opener for me, like recognizing whether through abuse, feminism, or whatever extreme that takes away from who God intends for women to be, our enemy is always Satan, he is always trying to destroy women, to hurt them, exhaust them [that's me], because a whole, healed woman that's full of God can be so powerful. Hurt people will hurt people, and healed people will heal people. A good book for me to read, and then we find out about this ministry, and you seem to teach a lot of the same things, deeper than most marriage books, ect.

Second, although it's awesome for women to be vindicated in our desire to be understood, loved, and protected, ect., I'm having a hard time seeing that the Bible doesn't teach headship of any kind in a marriage. If Biblical submission doesn't mean what we've been taught all these years,[and we've definitely been given a lopsided message, I realize that!] what DOES it mean? It IS in the Bible;[ I checked!]in several places, and so is headship.1Cor. 11:2-16, Eph.5:22-24, 1Peter3:1-6......... I don't WANT my husband to let me go like an untended garden, to not "cover" me spiritually or otherwise when needed, ect. In fact, that is one reason we are struggling........I don't feel secure, he basically hasn't ministered to me spiritually. Our youngest had some health issues when she was born, spent some time in the hospital, and when we brought her home, she needed a lot of extra care. Right before that, we found out our pastor couldn't stay, his wife had health issues and he needed to minister to her;[no fault of his, he did the right thing; our administrators just kind of left our little country church hanging], and in the meantime people got discouraged and decided to just disband and find other churches. Understandable enough, but we were in kind of a hard place to be finding a church. God WAS faithful, and sent people to minister to us, but it was hard because with our baby, I couldn't go to church for several months. For some reason, my husband still didn't seem to realize I needed ministry, and picked apart the sermons I would watch, listen to, if he thought they were somehow in error. I wouldn't have minded if he had a check about them from the Lord, or saw that there was error Biblically speaking,but he never could put his finger on anything. I try to always be careful and and listen when he has a word of caution, but it seemed more like he was just being critical; [maybe not, I'm open for correction] One day, I just told him that I needed HIM to minister to me, if he didn't like the preachers I was listening to; I felt STARVED! Same passive response. I'm sorry you're struggling, I'll pray for you.........If I'm battling spiritually, it's my battle, if I have a need, he doesn't seem to think he has any responsibility to fight for me, it's my problem, ect. When I do share with him, there's no strength there to draw from; he thinks I have issues, that I need counseling, it's my problem and I need to get help for myself, ect., and he wants me to go and get the help I need, because it stresses him out when I'm busy with homeschooling, my parents and their health/financial issues stress me and drain me,[btw, my husband has been more than kind in helping them, for which I have been very grateful. They absolutely love him, think he's the greatest], our marriage is a drain on me, I've been trying to be the perfect, submissive wife who serves her husband and family, trying to be a decent housekeeper, and then I'm up till all hours praying and crying out to God because I need his help or I'm going to lose it mentally, and I'm not available to him. For awhile, I took herbs[and prayed!] to try and perform physically [even though I was deeply hurt inside, and didn't feel a spiritual, emotional oneness at all ] and it did work, amazingly; I just kind of put my emotional, spiritual needs on the back burner, and was surprised at how I was able to perform physically. My husband was delighted; at last I had somehow gotten " victory", he wasn't being deprived, life was good.......and I was very, very tired, and wrecking myself emotionally; he didn't seem to notice, and still wasn't ministering to me.........recently our pastor said something in a sermon that made me realize what I was doing to myself; "If we're not growing spiritually and emotionally in our marriages, our physical relationship no matter how great, will not make up for that lack". So here I am, exhausted, still wanting to do the Lord's will; I know he can give me grace, but HE'S going to have to give it to me in the power of HIS SPIRIT; I have reached the end of what I feel I can handle! Recently, my husband went to a supposedly powerful Men's Encounter Retreat, and came back, shared some things with me [glad he did], he needs me to pray for him and be strong; while he's dealing with these things, he's very irritable and quick tempered,[which he tends to be, anyway; it's hard to reverence and respect someone you have to walk on eggshells around, and try to keep the kids from irritating him, ect.] What do I do; I don't want to do the wrong thing, don't want to be bitter, he backslid when some people in church leadership weren't faithful, a few years ago, and got into some sin. I'm still not sure what that all is/was; he insists it wasn't adultery or an affair; God knows; so far he has been afraid to tell me everything, thinks it would stress me out too much with my other struggles.[okay, maybe he really believes that, but this passivity is killing me emotionally]. I do believe he wants to serve God; we are in church and he is relatively active with activities, ect. He did go to the Men's Encounter, so I tell myself all is not lost........but I am becoming exhausted, and don't know whether I'll be able to stay strong until he experiences a breakthrough. If God gives me the annointing for it, and the energy, I'll keep fighting..........any advice? Thanks for your patience; I posted here, because I'm a homeschool mom, have my kids 24/7 and thought Moms on this forum would understand.....I feel guilty that I'm so mentally unavailable to my family right now.......help!

[Pebbles]

Hello, posyplanter! Welcome to the forum.

 

There are some excellent moderators on this forum and I know they will chime in, but I wanted to offer you some encouragement in the mean time.

 

You are so NORMAL! You are exhausted for a reason!

 

When God designed men and women He made them very uniquely. Men are made to initiate and women are made to respond. Unfortunately, your husband has not been initiating things that have nurtured your relationship. Your desire for him to minister to you (by listening to your heart, spending time with you, supporting you in your quest to learn more about God through teachings, etc.) was given to you by God. Like most men, your husband probably has NO CLUE that what you desire from him is not intended to drain him, but to create a very loving, satisfying, vibrantly, healthy marriage! When you understand that what you need from your husband to feel cherished is actually given by God as a provision for a tremendous marriage, your feelings about your needs will change. You won't feel guilty for wanting more from him! AND you will understand more of why you feel so off kilter when your husband isn't treating you the way that you desire to be treated... it will liberate you!

 

All of what I just said will make so much more sense when you read Joel and Kathy's books. They really spell everything out SO CLEARLY. All of the questions that you have about headship and submission are answered in the books. Be ready to do shed some more cleansing tears--it is so healing!

 

I found out about Joel and Kathy and within a few days I was on an airplane (with my husband) to go to one of their weekend intensives... It has totally changed our marriage!

 

I was totally exhausted like you. I too spent countless hours with the Lord. I longed to connect with my husband on a deeper level, but when I expressed that desire to him, he often told me that I needed to be with the Lord. Sometimes I stayed up until 3 or 4 in the morning so I could get "filled up." God did bless me in those times (He is faithful), but I was so baffled about how I seemed to "leak" so easily as soon as my husband and I started to interact when I woke up in the morning. "Why am I reacting like this to him?" I wondered... But it all makes sense now. My husband is SUPPOSED to meet my emotional needs for companionship, conversation and connection. When he didn't do this (even though God was meeting my spiritual needs as I spent time with Him), I was internally frustrated!

 

Husbands are called to "go first." Ephesians says that husbands are called to lay down their lives for their wives the way that Christ laid down His for the church. (Notice that wives are not given the same instructions.) When a husband does this consistently it creates such a wonderful marriage environment and his wife will respond and bless him back! But it really must begin with the husband. You are frustrated because by being the "submissive wife" you are trying to initiate the loving actions to your husband and YOU are laying down your life. This shows the character of your heart. It is golden.... But you are left frustrated because it is not God's design for your marriage. Does God want to use you to bless your husband? Absolutely! But you know how this is going to happen? As your husband lays down his desires for what HE wants, and makes a commitment to give you what you need. When your needs are getting met, you will bless your husband. And it becomes this beautiful circle of blessing, and blessing back., blessing, and blessing back.. How wonderful!

 

How come it doesn't work for the wife to initiate this circle of blessing? Well, we aren't made to AND most men unfortunately respond to the process like a toddler responds to being given too much freedom--it's a mess! Most men are emotionally stunted and only get more and more selfish when their wives take on the role of the husband in marriage. BUT when husbands do what they are called to do by loving their wives sacrificially, they grow out of that toddler space and become full-grown men of God... and their wives get nurtured and can thrive again. This process doesn't happen overnight, but it DOES happen!

 

I hope all of this makes sense. It is probably different than anything you have ever heard before about marriage, but I know that I know that I know that it IS the truth!

 

If you get Joel and Kathy's books, all of the pieces will come together and you won't question why you are tired anymore!

 

Good for you for stepping out and asking some questions... I can't wait to see what God does for you and your marriage!

[son-worshipper]

Hi posyplanter,

 

I'm glad you found us. I hope you find encouragement in this niche.

 

How could we be saved if Jesus didn't die for us first? It just couldn't happen, could it?

 

Jesus had to lay his life down for the Bride first, then she could obtain the full benefit of his death.

 

We're this way too. Your husband must die to himself first. That opens the door to the benefits of his "death" for you. He dies, you respond...just like God made us as women. This cycle starts the perpetual motion of a loving relationship. He dies to his own wants and desires, she responds lovingly...and the cycle repeats as long as he continues to die and she continues to respond lovingly.

[posyplanter]

Hello y'all, Thanks for your replies. Some of these things are beginning to make sense to me, but I'm still determined to be victorious, no matter what. I spent some time fasting a couple weeks ago, and the Lord comforted and strengthened me so much during that time.........maybe I need to do that more. Somehow, it doesn't seem right for me to just sit here and wait for my husband to start meeting my needs, however legitimate they may be. I feel an urgency in my Spirit to intercede for him. Yes I feel exhausted, but I'm far from perfect; I definitely have my share of faults, as well, and my husband can be such a great guy.............others absolutely love him, including my family. If we can win our husbands without a word [1 Peter 3] how come I haven't been able to do that yet? Maybe I need more of the power of God in my life. The thought of reading ANOTHER book sounds tiring right now. I believe I will read the Bible and pray, and he can read the books...........his friend actually is the one who told us about this ministry, and my husband says he wants help.........????????? Pray for us, and any more counsel/encouragement you have is appreciated; praise the Lord we're done with homeschool for the year; that takes some pressure off of me.Thanks again, and blessings to y'all........

[MaryJane]

Do you have Joel and Kathy's books yet? I urge you to read them. I think they will invigorate you rather than tire you!

[Pebbles]

Posyplanter,

 

I totally understand where you are coming from. I am sure that your husband is a good man and is liked and appreciated by many people. I have always known that my husband was a good man with a good heart, but that didn't mean that he knew how to be a good husband. He wanted to be a good husband, but he just didn't understand some basic principles about how to get there. It really is as simple as that. Once he understood what the Bible really says about marriage, he was ready to go for it! Even though it has not always been easy for him (laying his life down for me is not easy!), he did feel so hopeful that AT LAST he knew what to do!! He wasn't baffled anymore about what he could do to really communicate love to me in a way that I would get it!

 

I so appreciate your heart. You are a fighter. You are willing to do whatever it takes to shift things in your marriage--admit your shortcomings, fast, pray, etc. That is commendable... But something keeps rolling around in my mind that I would like you to consider. Isn't that the road that you have been taking already? I am not saying that praying, fasting and interceding do not have their place, but it is good to think, "Is this approach I am taking effective... or is God leading me down a different path so that I can get different results?" I don't want to sound like I am at all devaluing prayer or fasting, that is not it, but I do know from personal experience that things shifted for me in my marriage when I took a different kind of action. For me I felt like the Lord was hearing my years of prayers and cries and he was waiting for ME do something so that He could answer me! He was waiting for me to get to a place where I could take a bold step!

 

The bold step for me was going to an intensive. Perhaps I was in a different place than you are in. I reached a point where I realized that I couldn't pretend things were okay anymore. I would go through a cycle. I would get hurt, frustrated, etc. and sometimes I would tell others, but then I would convince myself that things weren't that bad, my husband is a good gouy, and so on. But I finally reached my breaking point. My husband confessed that he had looked at pornography again (this was a cycle that happened every few months) and I was devastated. I couldn't do it anymore! I had only heard about Joel and Kathy's ministry, but something in me knew that they had what we needed. (I had no idea what they taught, only that it had saved marriages.) That night, while sobbing in bed, I made a decision. We either went to a weekend marriage intensive, or we needed to get separated.

 

To my suprise, there was an intensive scheduled for THAT weekend. I found this out on a Wednesday morning when I called Joel. The intensive was beginning the next night in Florida. We live in California. They had space for ONE MORE couple! Within 11 hours, we were on a red eye to Florida! (This was no easy task: we have a 3 1/2-year-old to pack up for grandparent's house, my husband is self-employed, and I have ongoing health problems and at this point I was barely functioning.)

 

One of the things we had to for the intensive was read the books. We tried--while flying and intermittently sleeping--to do this before we got to Florida. It was so hard! There were several times on our trip there and the hours leading up to the intensive that I felt overwhelmed. "This is too much. This is crazy! I am SO tired!" But I kept feeling the Lord gently encouraging me, "Don't stress. Just keep pressing through. You are passing through this difficult place now so that you can get to place of CHANGE!"

 

Why am I telling you all of this? Because my story (of how I got introduced to these truths about marriage) is more extreme, but I do understand the exhaustion you are experiencing. I had to push through it too. I understand feeling like reading one more book is too much. But if you press through it, you will get to the other side! You can do it!

 

Your husband should read the books as well, as you mentioned. But marriage is about teamwork and the more you two work together by applying these principles, the faster your marriage will be restored to health.

 

The truth of what Joel and Kathy teach is all found in the Bible... so it is good that you want to study the Bible. Unfortunately, the way so many of us have been taught to interpret the Bible is just wrong and one-sides; our eyes have been blinded. We often don't fully comprehend these truths until someone points them out to us. That is the gift of the books--it is all spelled out so clearly. They are extremely eye-opening.

 

You came here for a reason, posyplanter. This can be a crossroads for you and your husband... maybe things "aren't that bad," but they could definitely get better and I KNOW that is what God wants for your marriage!

[posyplanter]

Wow ladies, It definitely sounds like you can relate to me.........that is so comforting. No, we haven't gotten the books. Since one of my husband's friends told him about your ministry, I'm hoping he will just get them and read them; sounds like what we need..........however, as burned out and exhausted as I am feeling right now, I'm not sure that hearing about all that I have been missing out on would be good for me. I already know what I haven't been getting..........nobody needs to remind me! I'm really longing for a refreshing from the Lord to give me the strength and stamina I need to keep going; I've been under attack mentally, spiritually,.........even physically, I have had such a lack of energy, and I eat pretty healthy and work out [when I can get away]........My husband thinks perhaps we need to stop homeschooling, perhaps send our children to Christian school, that maybe it's just too much for me, I'm not as available to him, because I have the kids 24/7; they ALWAYS seem to need me for something, and that's part of my struggle........maybe Christian school would give me a nice break for a year or two, but then, we had struggles before we ever started homeschooling. That has just added to wearing me down, yes, but I don't feel like that is really a root problem. My husband needs a breakthrough right now, I know without reading anything [except the Bible] that true repentance and true victory are only given by God. I'm DONE hoping in anything else. If God uses this ministry to help us, then I'd be thrilled..........but really, what can I possibly do in the meantime, except do my best to serve God and my family, PRAY, CRY OUT TO GOD, stand on his promises,[maybe some of you are right, I've been initiating too much, maybe I need to quit trying to "reach" my husband, and let the Holy Ghost take care of that part. I might not get quite so tired.] I have definitely known what it is for the Lord to give strength and victory, when it seems like my back is to the wall and I feel trapped.......what did the rest of you do during those times? Thanks so much for caring.......

[posyplanter]

Pebbles, I sure appreciate hearing your testimony. Praise God for your victory, and for all you were willing to do to press through. It helps to know that all those hours of crying out to God, and serving my husband weren't just"all wrong", even though something else might need to take place. The Bible tells us that they that "sow in tears shall reap in joy". One thing I did get from reading "Captivating" was that God wants to rescue us like a "damsel in distress"; just because our husbands may not be the "knight in shining armor" that we need them to be doesn't mean we should harden ourselves and embrace the lies of feminism, ect. We can go to God in those times, and I can honestly say, I'm beginning to see and experience that; Jesus wants to be that close to us. That I will admit is a hard one for me; my Mom had issues with depression and alcoholism while I was growing up, and came to the Lord when I was a teen. Although that was wonderful, even as a Christian, I always felt that I need to be strong for her, can never let her know when I struggle, that would only discourage her, ect. [i still do that!] My husband feels like that is part of my problem..........if I could deal with that issue, I could be set free, and I/we wouldn't struggle so much. Could that be true?

[Pebbles]

I love your heart! I love your heart to seek God, pray for your husband and find fulfillment in your relationship with Jesus. It is precious.

 

Again, I can so relate to all of the questions you have. Believe me!

 

Up until a few months ago I actually convinced myself that as long as I spent enough time with God, I could "survive" my marriage and be okay. My husband and I were living like roommates. He has always been a great father, so our family times together were great! We spent a lot of time playing and laughing. But then we would put our son to bed, and go our seperate ways. I would often go right to my room and read the Bible and study and pray for hours. I spent a short season "soaking" (just turning on worship music). I would journal and the Lord spoke the most wonderful things to me.

 

My husband and I would sometimes talk a bit, sometimes not, after our son was in bed. Sometimes I was so anxious to be with God that I didn't want to talk to him... our conversations frequently ended in frustration or arguments, so I thought, "What is the point?" We went on this way for two years!!

 

There were times when I wanted to have deeper connection with my husband, and sometimes he would stay engaged long enough to give it to me. But often I felt like I was talking to a blank screen--he was not emotionally present with me.

 

I actually reached a place where I felt like I was single--and I was okay with it. I had the mentality of "Jesus is enough for me." That sounds very spiritual and godly, but not a good place for a married woman to be. I remember wondering, "What do I need a husband for?" I knew I needed him to help me run the household, but I was so used to not getting my needs met emotionally that I started to die to my desire for him.

 

Jesus IS enough for you--in this way: He is enough to carry you through to other side of a healthy marriage. But you do need certain things from your husband and it is normal and okay to want and need those things. Does God want to rescue you like a "knight in shining armor?" Yes!! I just firmly believe that he wants to do that THROUGH your husband! (If you were single, it would be different.) Will your husband fail? Yes! He is not going to come for you perfectly every time... THAT is when you run to Jesus... and ask him to help you have grace and patience through the process of your husband growing up and learning how to be good to you.

 

About your issues with your mother... Joel and Kathy share how he blamed their marriage problems on her past: she was sexually abused for ten years. That is a lot to handle. He painted her as the emotionally unstable wife. But when he started being the husband he was called to be, she wasn't "emotionally unstable" anymore! He realizes that if he would loved and nurtured her in the biblical way from the beginning of their marriage, his love would have brought healing to her heart and they would have been happy all along. Kathy has come to a place of healing now. She is a radiant woman. Before Joel "got it" and became a good husband she did a lot of the same things that I did: got prayer, counseling, and spent a lot of time reading the Bible and praying. She tried everything she could to get whole and be happy in her marriage. The missing link was Joel!! So I think that understanding that you are afraid to be vulnerable with your mother may help improve your relationship with HER, but not your relationship with your husband.

 

Genesis says that a woman's desire will be for her husband. That is a good thing! That desire for him is what keeps you fighting for your marriage even when things look hopeless or bleak. You have the opportunity to learn new ways of fighting for your husband. By standing up for what you need and want, your husband will have the opportunity to learn and grow... He will mature spiritually--the process requires it! THAT will be the key to break through that he needs!

 

I don't mean to keep writing these long posts... but I know that God wants more for you. And literally every time you post, I think, "I remember feeling that way! I remember thinking that!" I am so thankful to God for opening my eyes and showing me the way to the marriage that He designed for me and my husband.... and I want the same for you!

[mommynpunkin]

Well Pebbles, I think you've just about covered it LOLOLOL I told Posy that I was praying and could post to her soon, but I haven't had much time on here. Your posts are awesome and I'm so thankful for the "team" I have joined on here...this really don't have anything to do with this thread LOL but I just love the women here who are so focused on doing God's will and allowing Him to use us for His glory and His purpose in marriages!

 

Posy, have you read the free excerpts on www.Godsavemymarriage.com ? You can get started there and pour over the other threads on here. That's what I did to begin with and I learned SOOOOO much. I would read until I felt like I couldn't shut my eyes LOL I would "come to my senses" and realize it was like 4am and I was "glued" to my computer screen LOL Through the other stories and praises and struggles is where I learned the most.

 

Putting your children into a school may help, but like you said, the problems were there before homeschooling so unless you REALLY feel the Lord moving you in that direction, stay true to what you are doing. I pray that I will be able to homeschool when Punkin' gets older. It's such an awesome responsibility, but the rewards are endless. Maybe you do need a break. Only you can know that.

 

There are some days that I don't know how I even got from point A to point B. And really when I reflect back over the day, I don't even remember getting from A to B LOL It's like a complete daze or like I'm a programed robot. At least I coulda been programed to like exercising a little more and food a little less! LOL

 

but really, what can I possibly do in the meantime, except do my best to serve God and my family, PRAY, CRY OUT TO GOD, stand on his promises,[maybe some of you are right, I've been initiating too much, maybe I need to quit trying to "reach" my husband, and let the Holy Ghost take care of that part. I might not get quite so tired.]

 

Oh boy do I understand this! I tried so many things I was running myself ragged. It's kind of like slamming your head into the wall and then expecting some kind of result other than just plain ole' dizziness LOL Some of the hardest lessons I've learned in this process is to STOP doing and start watching for what God is doing. I still struggle with this, but God always proves Himself faithful and then I want to smack myself for ever doubting.

 

Hang in there You're on the right track!

 

Hope you have a great weekend!

 

K

[MaryJane]

Please read the books! They have the practical advice you, and all of us, need. They lay it out plainly what a Christian marriage should look like.

[posyplanter]

Hello again, Ladies, y'all have been soooo kind in responding and have no idea how much it helps just to know that others have been there.............no, wait, maybe you DO have an idea LOL . Pebbles, what you said about feeling like you were single; I have shared that VERY THING with my husband at least once, and he just gives me this strange look like "what is her problem,she's too complicated". I can hardly get over the fact that other women feel that way, too. SO MAYBE I"M NOT CRAZY! One thing I can say is that my husband is a good provider, physically speaking. I haven't needed to go back to work since our oldest was born [10 yrs.], and that is worth something to me. Maybe that's why he thinks I'm crazy for feeling that way, even though I've tried to explain that I mean spiritually/emotionally. Thanks for those words of wisdom concerning my Mom, ect. Mommynpunkin, thanks, it's good to hear from you again; thought about ya ever since I "met" you; with all that you're facing/dealing with, I'm humbled that you would take time to respond and concern yourself with my needs......... Maryjane, yes, I KNOW! I"M HEARING YA! We really do need those books; I'm beginning to understand. My flesh is crying out right now, NOT ANOTHER BOOK!!! I don't want to be reminded of what I don't have, when I can't "fix" it! If it was "my fault", and I could read another great book on the ministry of wives to husbands, I'd probably eventually overcome my exhaustion, and buy the book. And also, as you've probably already perceived, I"M STUBBORN! I wish I could just stick my husband in a box, and send HIM to Joel and Kathy,[FedEx], and when he's "fixed" they can send him back. I'll stay home and pray.[and maybe sleep.] I don't want to read another book, or initiate any more communication............. I'm just too tired......... y'all just pray that he will get the books and READ them. [it's unusual for him to read more than a few chapters of this sort of thing.]Maybe his friend will bug him relentlessly till he does.[He was on the website tonight, earlier] In the meantime thanks to all of you for your concern, and responses. May God BLESS all of ya REAL GOOD............

[posyplanter]

Hello again, Ladies, y'all have been soooo kind in responding and have no idea how much it helps just to know that others have been there.............no, wait, maybe you DO have an idea LOL . Pebbles, what you said about feeling like you were single; I have shared that VERY THING with my husband at least once, and he just gives me this strange look like "what is her problem,she's too complicated". I can hardly get over the fact that other women feel that way, too. SO MAYBE I"M NOT CRAZY! One thing I can say is that my husband is a good provider, physically speaking. I haven't needed to go back to work since our oldest was born [10 yrs.], and that is worth something to me. Maybe that's why he thinks I'm crazy for feeling that way, even though I've tried to explain that I mean spiritually/emotionally. Thanks for those words of wisdom concerning my Mom, ect. Mommynpunkin, thanks, it's good to hear from you again; thought about ya ever since I "met" you; with all that you're facing/dealing with, I'm humbled that you would take time to respond and concern yourself with my needs......... Maryjane, yes, I KNOW! I"M HEARING YA! We really do need those books; I'm beginning to understand. My flesh is crying out right now, NOT ANOTHER BOOK!!! I don't want to be reminded of what I don't have, when I can't "fix" it! If it was "my fault", and I could read another great book on the ministry of wives to husbands, I'd probably eventually overcome my exhaustion, and buy the book. And also, as you've probably already perceived, I"M STUBBORN! I wish I could just stick my husband in a box, and send HIM to Joel and Kathy,[FedEx], and when he's "fixed" they can send him back. I'll stay home and pray.[and maybe sleep.] I don't want to read another book, or initiate any more communication............. I'm just too tired......... y'all just pray that he will get the books and READ them. [it's unusual for him to read more than a few chapters of this sort of thing.]Maybe his friend will bug him relentlessly till he does.[He was on the website tonight, earlier] In the meantime thanks to all of you for your concern, and responses. May God BLESS all of ya REAL GOOD............

[Looney_Tunes]

Hi Posy, I'm glad you found us. As you've already discovered, most of us on this forum can relate to what you're feeling.

 

We get the exhaustion. We get the idea that you don't want to read one more thing, be responsible for once more being the one who tries to change your relationship. But . . . you need the books. Plain and simple. If reading is too difficult now, get the audio versions and listen to them. If you listen while you're husband's home, he'll hear it without you really having to do anything.

 

Shut up and pray just doesn't work. Most people, especially men, don't change unless the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change. You are going to have to take a deep breath, find some energy, and DO something different if you want your marriage to be healed.

 

We'll hold your hand and walk you through this, but unfortunately we can't read the books for you.

[JJ]

posyplanter,

You said

my Mom had issues with depression and alcoholism while I was growing up, and came to the Lord when I was a teen. Although that was wonderful, even as a Christian, I always felt that I need to be strong for her, can never let her know when I struggle, that would only discourage her, ect. [i still do that!] My husband feels like that is part of my problem..........if I could deal with that issue, I could be set free, and I/we wouldn't struggle so much. Could that be true?

 

It is likely that you are functioning this same way in your relationship with your husband and the reason you are so exhausted. Many of us have operated this way with the same depressing results.

 

Pebbles said

When God designed men and women He made them very uniquely. Men are made to initiate and women are made to respond. Unfortunately, your husband has not been initiating things that have nurtured your relationship. Your desire for him to minister to you (by listening to your heart, spending time with you, supporting you in your quest to learn more about God through teachings, etc.) was given to you by God. Like most men, your husband probably has NO CLUE that what you desire from him is not intended to drain him, but to create a very loving, satisfying, vibrantly, healthy marriage!

 

Satan has deceived many of us in subtle ways, he takes truth and twists it slightly so we try so hard to live by his lies thinking it is truth. Many of us wives have believed that if we submitted enough or prayed and fasted enough then our marriages would improve. Ephesians 5:23 tells us the husband is the "head" which means life source (not big boss.) The life of the marriage is initiated through the husband as the life of the church is initiated through Christ.

 

In Ephesians 5:33 wives are told to respect their husbands, so women focus on that. Of course just before that that the husband is told to love his wife as he loves himself. And also note that the preceding eight verses tell the husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

 

Go back to verse 21 of the same chapter where we are told to submit to one another. Verse 24 tells wives to submit to their husbands as the church does to Christ. What did Christ do first? Lay his life down for the church.

 

We women put so much effort into trying to make ourselves good enough wives, praying that God will change us so we can have a good marriage. But Satan has had us deceived, our husbands must love us as Christ loved the church, the respect of the wives is to follow, not the other way around. First things first, when we try to do it backwards it doesn't quite work properly, or maybe not at all.

 

If your husband will initiate things that nurture your relationship then you will experience a fulfilling marriage. God created woman to complement man and it is a very good thing when we function by His design. We were made to be different and work together in harmony. (The definition of Complement- a thing that completes or brings to perfection. Isn't that great?)

 

We must learn Truth, we must no longer try so hard to live according the the twisted lies that "the father of lies" uses to keep us bound and ineffective. It is time to begin living in God's Truth.

[Jan]

PP,

I think you will find the books very healing, very comforting. Not condeming, not finger pointing, but healing! I know I did...it was like 'whew! I really wasn't crazy after all! It really wasn't all my fault! It is ok to be exhausted." There was a reason I was exhausted and kept crashing. I was at the end of my physical and emotional rope. I would read them and cry, read them and cry some more.

They have a free excerpt here on the forum. Just try it...really! Trust me, they aren't going to beat you up or tell you it is your fault. Or like Loon said, get the tapes...

In His Love,

[posyplanter]

Hello again, [sigh..........] Okay, maybe I can gather myself together, with God's help, and [cringe] communicate with my husband tonight. [after we're done with all we will have going on and kids are in bed, of course. That has been hard; having so much going on, there's really not been much time to build a relationship.] He's been on the website on and off, subscribed to the "mini videos", [wow, something I didn't have to do; THANK YOU JESUS!!!] In the last newsletter, Kathy talked about "responding" to our husbands' efforts to win our hearts, and it sounds wonderful, except I'm not sure what to do with it.[Hubby read it and thinks it was a great article, btw] My husband believes he's a pretty good guy; he isn't physically abusive, supports us financially, takes us to church, has been trying [i think,] to be nice to me, and can't seem to understand why I'm not "responding" to his efforts. He did come home from work last night all uptight, saying the grass needed to be cut [right now!] was all nerved up about it, and usually when he's in one of those moods, we all just try and stay out of his way till he calms down. He often will snap at anyone who gets on his nerves, in his way, ect. Well miracle of miracles, he ended up in the pool with the kids, instead. When he saw the questioning look on my face, he said he decided to chill out and not get so stressed out over the yard........we ended up getting last minute company after dinner, so the yard never did get cut, but I'd rather have happy kids ANY DAY than a perfect yard. I like a nice yard, [and someday, I might eat my words,] but I'd rather be happy as a family, if I must choose! I'm left wondering what that was all about, evidently he's trying..........but will it last and how far is he willing to go to have complete and total victory? I would LOVE to "respond" more exuberantly, and I do let him know I appreciate what he does, but these things don't just "fix" years of disappointment, hurt, exhaustion.............how can I communicate this to him in a way that doesn't discourage him? Also, I'd like to ask him to get the books [and READ them, please] but don't want to nag, sound impatient, ect. Any words of wisdom from y'all? [i'd STILL rather just ship him to Joel and Kathy to be "repaired", so I could stay home and sleep]

[Looney_Tunes]

Just tell him that you've found these books that would help your marriage, and you'd like him to order them and read them. Stop worrying so much about how he'll react. Just ask him.

 

Have you been on a conference call yet? I would strongly urge you to start calling in. You don't have to talk if you don't want to, but you'll get a lot of help just by listening.

[posyplanter]

Hello again, Thanks, Loon for the advice. I do tend to worry a lot about doing things "just right"; I don't want to ruin anything, and have to "start all over". My husband did subscribe to the mini video clips, which have some good information/teaching, but last night we watched one [the BAD ADVICE one], and he stopped it before it was even halfway through. I don't think he wanted me to hear it! I hope he watches it later on........it makes me so sad when these things aren't more of a priority with him. I don't believe it's only because of the content either; we have heard teaching and even been at conferences [done by those who believe in "submissive wives"] and even they had PLENTY to say about husbands needing to minister to their wives and families. To be perfectly honest,[i might change my mind later] submission as these people teach it is not something I have a problem with, because they strongly emphasize that husbands must "go first", love their wives as Christ loved the church, and THAT is what wives are to submit to. I can't imagine that being very difficult! Anyway, I know those things convicted my husband; at least he said so, but I've never really seen evidence that he had a real heart change. Things just went on pretty much like before. Once, when I was deeply troubled about this, I asked God why even though he has heard so much truth, and even says that he was convicted, has nothing changed? The Lord just spoke so clearly to me that "you can't share a vision, when you don't have one, and you can't minister something you haven't received yourself." It was kind of like the Lord was saying to me "don't try so hard to figure it out, if I truly get hold of someone, and they are overflowing with the love and presence of my Spirit they can't help but minister!".............so that's what I've been praying for, a true heartrending encounter with God, for my husband. And yes, I do feel like these resources have been an answer to prayer, but Satan our enemy will fight Truth, because he loves to keep us in bondage. I need to be honest with my husband and confront some things, ask for some things, and am not looking forward to it, because I'm afraid he will do the same as before; "yes I'm willing to do that", and just revert back to the old rut. I've been struggling so much physically with exhaustion and mentally having trouble concentrating on things that didn't use to be hard for me. I used to love being a stay at home Mom, homeschooling, keeping the house, cooking, decorating our home, ect., [we never have had much conflict over those things] just love being a woman, really, but lately, the stress has been catching up with me. I don't feel like I'm even the same person anymore. [i'm pretty particular with my diet, try to eat whole, healthy foods, exercise, take whole food supplements, avoid things that are "toxic", ect.] I've wondered whether some time away for a couple weeks would help. I'm pretty sure my Mom wouldn't be much help for our marriage; I avoid telling her anything negative about anyone, family or otherwise; but she and "Grandpa" would love to see the kids again, and she understands health issues enough that even if I just told her I need some time to relax and recuperate from "homeschool burnout' she would probably say "come on!" Any thoughts on that?

[Looney_Tunes]

I don't think running to Mom's is the answer quite yet. What you need to do is give your husband some specific things he needs to do - read the books by a specific date, get on a conference call with you, etc.

 

If he refuses, then it's time to run to Mom's for a bit. He needs to know you're serious about making some changes and that you're not going to let him drag this out forever.

 

Perfectionism paralyzes. I know it's hard, but you need to get over the need to do everything perfectly. You can't. You're not Jesus.

 

You also need to remember that God gave us all free will. You could do everything perfectly, and your husband could still choose to walk away from this. All you can do is give him the information and a choice. You can't force him to do anything, and you're not responsible for his decision.

 

It's ok to give yourself a break. Ditch school (if you haven't already) and do some fun things with the kids. Learn to enjoy your life even if your husband is being a butthead. Don't give him the power to make your entire life miserable.

[posyplanter]

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!! [Actually, we're finished with school for this year, so PTL, that helps!]

[Enjoying the sunshine]

posyplanter,

 

I agree with Looney here. FIRST set hubby up with the choice to do what needs to be done. And then, be ready to take action.

 

I got to this point with my hubby, where I just knew I could NOT live this way anymore. I ended up having to put my foot down, and let him know I was done. I left for the weekend, and came home after he left to live at his mother's house. He stayed there for two weeks, read most of book 2 (we had read book 1 long before this point) and then finally signed us up for an intensive. (actually, if you look at it in reality, it was our second intensive). While it has not been an easy road, by any means, that was the beginning of our change. And I firmly believe that it would not have happened had I not gotten to the point of leaving and forcing him to make the changes.

 

It is so hard, but it is so worth it.

[Teafriend]

Posy,

 

Did you read your PM?

 

TF

[mommynpunkin]

Mommynpunkin, thanks, it's good to hear from you again; thought about ya ever since I "met" you; with all that you're facing/dealing with, I'm humbled that you would take time to respond and concern yourself with my needs.........

 

Oh please don't feel humbled by my two cents I am right there with you in this process! Your needs and your situation is just as important as anyone else on here! I'm so thankful to have the chance to minister as I'm also being ministered to. We kind of form a bond on here and it's so comforting that while the rest of our lives seem to be spinning out of control, we can come here and actually be treated like we matter and we can feel loved.

 

I wish I could just stick my husband in a box, and send HIM to Joel and Kathy,[FedEx], and when he's "fixed" they can send him back.

 

Awesome!! We'd all keep FedEx in business!! LOLOLOLOL Most of our husbands would be "repeat customers" LOL

 

When I first got J&K's books, it was like I was overwhelmed with a desire to soak up everything they said, but I couldn't seem to pick them up and read a single page. I think we get so exhausted with everything that we're even too exhausted to get help. When I finally did open book 1, I couldn't put it down!! Now I've loaned it out to several people and need to buy some more copies LOLOL

 

Then I was scared to death to mail them to my husband. He was open to reading them at first and he said he had read some of it, but every time I would bring up certain examples in the books, he would turn it back around on me and say he was the woman in the book and I was the man. SOOOO frustrating!!!! Who knows what he's done with the books in the last 11 months since I sent them, but at least I tried. It's all you can do.

 

I don't feel like I'm even the same person anymore.

 

Holy cow do I understand this...

 

 

I'm falling asleep here typing (found out today that I have Mono so I now know why I can't keep my eyes open when I sit down) so I better get to bed, but know that I'm praying for you!

 

 

mommy

[Pure in Heart]

Posy,

 

we have heard teaching and even been at conferences [done by those who believe in "submissive wives"] and even they had PLENTY to say about husbands needing to minister to their wives and families. To be perfectly honest,[i might change my mind later] submission as these people teach it is not something I have a problem with, because they strongly emphasize that husbands must "go first", love their wives as Christ loved the church, and THAT is what wives are to submit to

 

I wanted to clarify the difference in "submission" teachings that at first may appear to be no big deal but the subtleties or nuances of the "spiritual" language many use makes all the difference.

 

When submission in many Church circles is presented; it is usually taught as 50/50. The husband loves his wife and she submits. Yet, the Bible does not teach that 50/50 rule. The Bible clearly teaches that both people in a marriage give it all to each other within the confines and directives of Scripture. The way the husband and wife DO this is mutual but the roles are different. There is submission in marriage but it is both who submit. The very beginning of the Chapter in Ephesians 5 instructs both husbands and wives says, "To submit one to another out of reverence for Christ." The wife submits to a husband by responding (philandros love) to his Christlike or un-Christlike behavior, attitudes, actions, words and deeds. These responses from a wife are both positive and negative responses.

 

In the past most women have been taught that to react and respond to sinful behavior by our husbands was somehow ungodly and disrespectful. Yet, God created a wife to fulfill her role as a help-meet to her husband. She is purposely designed by God to point out, address and confront all the ways a husband treats her. If a husband is abusive to his wife she is to confront his abuse...whether that abuse is spiritual, emotional, financial or physical. When a husband acts in accordance with "agape" love a wife is to equally respond in warm, loving and positive ways toward him. In these ways she is respecting him. It is a respect that is earned not just arbitrarily given as we have been taught. When a husband is willing to love her to the point he is willing to put himself aside and she knows it..... she will naturally return that love.

 

Husbands submit themselves to a wife by initiating life and love for her. He "lays his life down for her as Christ did for His bride(Church)." Submission is an attitude and motive of one's heart that effects a person's actions and behavior. A husband is representative of Christ to his wife. He loves her in the same way Christ loved him and gave himself up for her. Christ is the Word of God become flesh...in the same manner a husband embodies the very essence of God's Word and makes it a living, breathing, tangible Word. A husband lives out that very Word by how he treats and loves his own flesh(wife). That kind of love is capable of washing her and healing her of every spot, blemish and wrinkle in her heart and soul. A husband goes first. Jesus died for the Bride...the Bride did not die for God. Jesus brought life to us..... we did not give life to God. In the same way a husband is the Source....of life to his wife. A husband must chose to bring life and agape love to her. Or it is within the husband's power to so mistreat her and not love her that he ends up bringing death to her in every part of her being including spiritually and emotionally.

 

I am so glad you found this forum. There is help and truth here that will free you and unburden your mind and heart. Please order and read their Book...it is life-giving and life changing for both the wife and husband. There is hope. Give the Book to your husband and tell him to read...that you found the answer!!! Blessings to you as you walk toward your miracle. It will seem like what you have prayed for for years is finally coming into view...

 

Pure in Heart