Please help me see HOPE!! I need you people terribly!!

[For Him For Her]

Beloved Warrior,

 

This is going to be a re-post but you need to read it again. This time read with your heart not your mind. Do not read it with any thought of winning your wife back.Read it as it applies to you ONLY. If you can master the thought of YOU need to change first then you will be on your way. Until you stop worrying about what she thinks or what she is doing, you are not going to win her heart back.

 

As J&K teach from the Bible, the man must go first before the wife will respond.You want to control the situation? There is your control. You go first and fix yourself and your wife will respond.

 

 

My journey has been long and at times very hard but nothing else in this world could have made me the man I am today. I have learned what it truly means to love someone unconditionally and I have God and my Beautiful to thank for it. I now understand in a small way what Jesus did and does for us everyday. His hand is ALWAYS extended to us. It doesn't matter what we did yesterday, what we did today, or we did 10 minutes ago. He only wants us to take his hand.

 

There has been a lot of rejection but within it is where I have learned to grow. It is where I finally started to listen. It is where I found me. It is where I found real love. Without it, I would still be the OLD David.

 

When I really wanted to change, I started letting go of me and embracing my Beautiful. I started giving instead of taking.The more that I gave and the less I would take, began the opening my heart for the first time.It is also made me very vulnerable but it is only when we allow ourselves to be in that state can we feel love.

 

Because of what I have learned here and I started listening to God speak in my heart, I feel LOVE. Love comes from what we give and not what we receive. That leaves me to do the only thing I can do to show my Beautiful how much I love her. No matter what she did a month ago,what she did a week ago,what she did yesterday, or how many times she rejects me, I will extend her my hand.

 

God Bless

David

[belovedwarrior]

I am not smart enough to hear what you are telling me please spell it out for me... what do I have to give her? All doors have been shut, I have no other option than my journey to cghristlikeness. Not that I would only do it because I have no option but that does make it pretty clear.

Until you stop worrying about what she thinks or what she is doing, you are not going to win her heart back.

??

[Giving Hope]

BW

 

I feel that you are getting really confused here.

 

You asked, "what do you have to give her?" Right now, you give her the space she is asking for. You give her time that she needs. This is what she is asking of you...Back off

 

Second, you are not going to win her heart back, if you are not listening to what she is asking of you. So what did she ask of you? SPACE!

 

You are probably sitting there thinking, how am I to meet her needs, if she doesn't tell me what those are...See you are thinking of this in term of what you can physically do for her. What can you do to "fix" the problem. The problem with this, is that you cannot "fix" the problem like you would "fix" a car.

 

There really is nothing you can do right now physically. Listening to her heart means, just that...again...she asked you to back off, give her some space...So that is WHAT YOU DO!

 

When we ask you to let go and turn this all over to God, this what what that means...You STOP focusing on what she might be doing and thinking, you give up that control. That's none of your business at this point in time.

 

So what do you do in the mean time?

 

You spend time with your children and focus on being Christlike towards them, you let them blossom before your eyes. You treat them like the children of God they are.

 

David pointed it all really well to you here, when you asked your almost 14 year old, to say the words you wanted to hear...Who cares what words you NEED to hear...You should have just accepted the words she said and stopped at that...Now you owe your daughter an apology for manipulating her into saying words that were NOT in her heart. You basically forced her to say something that was not pure. Now she is feeling manipulated all over again...and now she will go back to your wife and tell your wife this, that "daddy forced me to say that I forgive him"...wonder how that is going to look to your wife? Do you think that is going to win your wife's heart back or cause more pain and anger.

 

You said something about this child feeling bitterness...This child is angry and rightly so! ONLY you laying down your life and working towards Christlikeness will this child come back around...But if you are interacting with her like you posted today...NO WONDER your children and your wife don't want to be around you...

 

You really need to seriously think about what you are saying, doing and acting when you are around your children...every action, every word, everything you do IS and WILL get back to your wife...your children are watching every move you make..and are waiting to report it all back to your wife...

 

So anytime you are around your children (and anyone else for that matter), you need to make sure your actions and words line up and are in order with what God is calling you to be...

[belovedwarrior]

I called her and apologized for making her feel as if she needs to forgive me right NOW. That I understand I hurt her by the way I treated her and hurt her because she saw the way I treated her mother when we were living together. She has every right to feel that way- there is no excuse for the way I behaved and it will only be through my actions that she will know that I am becoming the man God needs me to be for her and her mom. and it is not my place to tell her when and whom she needs to forgive.

[belovedwarrior]

Thank you so very much for the kick in the guts...

 

By the way...

 

I picked up my son and youngest step-daughter this afternoon, we went to the park for an hour then when it began to rain, grocery shopping. We then came home made dinner and then played two games of memory with them. We then got involved in another board game with my daughter and we played together for four hours (playing Cashflow- I just picked it up today at Goodwill for .60) After dinner we did a child focused devotional and another before bed.

 

Tomorrow I am driving back into town 45 miles to pick up the other step-daughter so I can see her Saturday night especially when she said "You coming back to get me because I have agreed to babysit is such a a waste of gas..." I said, "NOOO spending time with you could never equate to a waste of anything." I will come get you- it is most certainly worth it."

 

Should I have agreed with her because she is female and her heart said me driving 90 miles round trip was a waste of gas and money and that was in her heart because I must have put that in her somehow...?

 

Maybe I should have said, "you are right honey, I am sorry- driving all that distance and burning all that gas is such a waste, I understand why you feel like that you probably took the babysitting job because of how poorly I have provided for you in the past and you feel you need to look out for your self and protect yourself.... we'll just get together 2 weeks from now when seeing you isn't such an inconvenience."

 

I am really becoming paranoid to even open my mouth. What is the response to this post? "I count x uses of the word 'I' it is obviously all about you and what you feel." Well guess what folks- feelings are kind of new to me- and just whose feelings do you think I feel?

[Jaya]

We drive an 3 hours to go get my husband's son every month and not one minute of those three hours is a waste of time and gas. You could have apologized for putting that in her heart but never agree that picking her up - no matter how far away it is - is a waste of time and always tell her that is absolutely not the truth. The truth is you would drive ALL day to go and get her if that is what it took!

[belovedwarrior]

Gaininghope- I am sorry for my sarcasm and tone of voive in my last post starting "thanks for the kick in the guts" it was inappropriate and did more to reveal the condition of my spirit / heart than anything helpful, please forgive me. Want to get this out quick... I'll update on the weekend later

[belovedwarrior]

I am / have been fighting a bubbling cauldron of anger toward my situation and the necessity to "give up control." It has not been fun at all. I do know my wife needs space, that it is not a "bad" thing she is experiencing conflict, and I need to give up my control. This is where the dieing is. The devotionals we have done together so far this weekend have spoken to me far more I think than the kids. We have been playing Rich dad poor dad's Cashflow game teaching the kids AND I better ways to handle money. I bought it for .60 cents at a goodwill store, evidently it is a 160 $ game. It is raining out so we will be indoors all day- thank goodness for board games.

 

So we are spending massive amounts of time on our bellys face to face playing a board game on money wisdom.

 

Devotionals morning and night.

 

And fixing their favorite foods.

 

And I am enjoying the heck out of serving them.

 

Looking forward to their sister getting here later.

and then we will watch "Race to witch mountain. The kids said mom wants to see it so I intend to send it home with them. It is a net flix she can just mail out from her house when done. Is this a bad idea??

[Giving Hope]

Tomorrow I am driving back into town 45 miles to pick up the other step-daughter so I can see her Saturday night especially when she said "You coming back to get me because I have agreed to babysit is such a a waste of gas..." I said, "NOOO spending time with you could never equate to a waste of anything." I will come get you- it is most certainly worth it."

 

THIS is the perfect Christlike response..You did good there! When it comes to the children, always look for the positive response to the situation....

 

Maybe I should have said, "you are right honey, I am sorry- driving all that distance and burning all that gas is such a waste, I understand why you feel like that you probably took the babysitting job because of how poorly I have provided for you in the past and you feel you need to look out for your self and protect yourself.... we'll just get together 2 weeks from now when seeing you isn't such an inconvenience."

 

This is NOT a Christlike response...this would have killed her heart...She would have felt, that she didn't matter..even the gas and time spent coming back to get her would make her feel rejected...

 

Looking forward to their sister getting here later.

and then we will watch "Race to witch mountain. The kids said mom wants to see it so I intend to send it home with them. It is a net flix she can just mail out from her house when done. Is this a bad idea??

 

This was GOOD as well! Not only did you meet a "need" there, no matter how small...this is the best example of how you can "use" the children in meeting your wifes needs.. (I don't mean "use" as in use them...but use them as a go between.) You gain a little insight from the children, and you wee able to serve and bless your wife, without it being "forced" down her throat...Another suggestion for next time....Have the children bring the movie back to you and you mail it out from your place...this way it won't feel that you are putting another responsibility on her shoulders.....

[Looney_Tunes]

Yes, you did well in responding to your daugher. Funny thing about kids - they will often suggest something they DON'T want in order to see if you will hold your ground and push past it. Trust me, if she had been able to talk you out of coming back that easily, her heart would have been crushed. Kids in foster care do that a lot - they are so certain that the current family is not going to keep them that they will act out, all the time desperately hoping that this time they will be loved no matter what.

[belovedwarrior]

Been doing devotionals with the kids while they are here... man have I been convicted. The first was about Jesus washing His disciples feet, the second about bridling our tongues, last night's was about controlling our anger and this evening's after dinner was reaping what we sow. I am not so sure these are just about the kids. Almost as if they were chosen specifically for my heart.

 

I pray I don't reap all I deserve. My gosh.

 

Picked up my older daughter this afternoon- not the one I made forgive me (I had a conversation with her last night along the apology lines of J&K) and pulled a few obviously nasty weeds while waiting for her to get her things together and my son to get his Sunday clothes. Evidently she needs to be at church tomorrow at 8am to rehearse for the teen worship ensamble. My wife was on the porch this time- she saw me with weeds in my hands and asked what I was doing, I simply said pulling a few of the nasty weeds while I am waiting for the kids to get their things together.

 

Once they were all together ready my wife said, "OK I think it is time for you all to go." We walked towards the car and began to head out when she called out to me, "You'll be able to get her to church by 8?" I said, "Yep- sure thing." and we left.

 

Not anything all that monumental except I kept my mouth shut- didn't engage in conversation with her and got to sow a little goodness.

[Eeyore]

BW - Good job!! Keep your mouth shut, and keep seeking to be Christlike in your life. Bless your children and focus on them. That is progress!

[Giving Hope]

The first was about Jesus washing His disciples feet, the second about bridling our tongues, last night's was about controlling our anger and this evening's after dinner was reaping what we sow. I am not so sure these are just about the kids. Almost as if they were chosen specifically for my heart.

 

Probably going to get a little deep here with you but this is good.

 

The story of Jesus washing his disciples feet is a good lesson for us to live by. Jesus was being a servant to his disciple's..just the way a husband is to be a servant to his wife. If you noticed, in the story, Jesus went first there, he didn't sit there waiting for everyone else to wash his feet, he went down on his knees and washed there's first. Even though the diciples didn't understand this or even like it, he was teaching them a powerful lesson. Men as to serve other's in a Christlike way.

 

Binding our tongue. Another good one, especially for husbands like yourself, who have not learned how to control what they do or don't say to the people around them. This one is basically saying to you.."think before you speak"..words are powerful and can hurt or heal...what is the goal here...to heal...so you make sure your words are healing words only.

 

Anger: Anger is really nothing more than expressing control. While yes, Jesus did get angry in the temple and over turned the tables..he did this to teach a lesson. While anger is OK, its in how we express that anger that causes us to sin. Be quick to anger so you do not sin....(something to that effect). The good news is that anger can be controlled...its' within all of us to control. Have you ever had a time in your life when you were in a "anger" mood, lashing out a your wife and the phone rings? Did you answer that phone in anger or did you answer it in a normal tone of voice? Sure you answered it in a normal tone of voice...Why? Because you CAN control your anger...You were in control. You wanted control...So it's in letting go of that control that you learn to grow....

 

Reaping what you sow: Well guess what? This is what is going on right now? You are reaping what you have been sowing all these years in your marriage.. You're wife has left you, you are living apart, you only get to see your children every so often. This is reaping what you have sowed..You sowed death into your marriage and your children's lifes....

 

The good news...you are waking up and learning now how to reap LIFE into your marriage and children.. It took you how many years to get to this point in your life? It could take just as many to get to the other side of this...to win your wife's heart back. Most of the time, it doesn't when we have a wife who is willing to work with the husband...but at this time, that's not the case here, so the approach is different. You stand on the side lines and work from the outside in, instead of the inside out...

 

You did better today...glad to read that...pulling some of the weeds while waiting was a good thing...not saying anything about where your heart was is in that was a good thing...what you said was good....

 

As for your daughter..the one you made to say "those words". I hope that your apology has been taken to heart...but at this time...I would suggest you drop this conversation and not say anything more to her about it. If she feels there is more to say...then let her come to you...otherwise you say nothing else and keep working towards being a source of LIFE to her....

 

Good job today....

 

Heather

[Jeff]

BW,

Glad to see that you had a pretty good weekend with the kids. I like how you have found a couple of ways to serve your wife by listening to the kids and gaining some knowledge and understanding of your wife. She wants to see the movie that you got for the kids. So send it home for her to see....Awesome!......Pulling some weeds while you waited....another good one.

 

How did it feel to pull those weeds for your wife while you were waiting? I am going to guess that if you were pulling them with a warm heart and a smile on your face. You probably felt a little of what Jesus felt while he was washing his disciples feet. A servant heart....... A few years ago at our church, our pastor had everyone line up and had us wash each others feet. I had a huge problem with this(really don't like my feet, and didn't want someone to have to touch them). Looking back on it, I don't think thatwas the problem. I realize now that my problem was that I was living a sinful life full of pornography and in an affair at the time. So deep down in my soul I knew that I wasn't worthy of having another child of God serve me. If only I had awakened to what was God was saying back then. That night while everyone took turns washing each others feet was a visible and livable experience that I look back on and learn from. It didn't matter that I was in my spirit a decieptful and sinful man....Nobody knew that at the time...... Look at it from Jesus' perspective. He knew that Judas was going to betray him, yet he still washed his feet too. Jesus still went first!!!! You have the opportunity to wash your wife and children's feet. Maybe not literally but emotionally. So you do it with a christ like heart, not knowing the outcome of all of this is a good thing. It forces you to trust God. If you look at it, you will see that pulling those weeds was a way to wash your wife's feet and serve her just as Christ has served you. So I am very proud of you.

 

Like heather said earlier, don't bring up the conversation about forgiveness with your daughter. She will bring it up if she needs to say anything else about it. She will when she feels safe enough to speak to you about it. Keep up the good work, you have made some good steps here this weekend.

 

God Bless,

Jeff

[belovedwarrior]

I have decided... I do not want my wife's heart to turn to me, but to Jesus 100% first and foremost. That if she chooses to open her heart toward me it is in response to hearing God's voice and choosing to pursue reconciliation because it is pleasing to Him.

 

The only conversation we had today was me leaving a voice mail on her phone, expressing my concern over the shape of my middle daughter's spine. New development. While we were watching our movie last night I noticed several of her vertebrae seem to protrude not exactly right and considering she is 12 just entering puberty and an expected growth spurt it concerns me. I approached it like this,

 

"Hey, I am assuming you are already concerned about it but it seems M may have some challenges with her spine. I was rubbing her back last night while we were watching a movie and it seems there might be some alignment issues. I realize I am no DR but it just didn't seem right and I know this is the age when curvatures often show up and it is the best time to deal with them. I know there is a good chance you are already aware of this but if not I think it would do her well to get it checked. She also seems to have an abnormal curve at the base of her neck between her shoulder blades. I hope I am wrong and it is nothing but if you find something out, I wouldn't mind hearing about it."

 

The kids and I played "Cashflow" (Rich dad poor dads money strategy game) for 3.5 hours today at church between morning and evening service waiting for mom to get there. Once she got there I said good bye to the kids, loaded their things into her van and left.

When I left she was talking with one of the care group leaders from choir that she used to be very close with before they asked my wife to step down because of her initiating the divorce. (I have mixed feelings on this but had nothing to do with it)

 

Once I got home I texted her, "No reply necessary- I understand visiting with your daughters is a huge privilege- Thank you."

[For Him For Her]

Beloved Warrior,

 

Almost!

 

"No reply necessary- I understand visiting with your daughters is a huge privilege- Thank you."

 

Thank you for allowing me to visit with your daughters.I understand it is a huge privilege.

 

Your heart was there but the wording is SO important. It took me a while to understand that one. Again it may seem small but it isn't.I assure you.

 

No reply necessary

 

These three words take away her choice to respond or not.In a happy and healed marriage this probably wouldn't be a blip on the radar but in our marriages it is. Look up the word (humble) on Bible.com and study it inside and out.Only a 100% humble heart can bring life back into a destroyed heart.

 

God Bless David

[belovedwarrior]

I worded it like this, I thought, to take the pressure off her. Remember she said not to long ago she did not want me texting her anymore trying to engage her in conversation. She did however say, "we could still talk about the kids." So I don't know. I am not arguing with you- you are most likely 100% correct- I was just scared and by saying this (the text) the way I did, I didn't have to worry about unmet expectations on my part.

[belovedwarrior]

Is it possible my wife has done some things- maybe sexually- since we have been separated she is afraid that if I knew I would not want her back? I did tell her during our marriage that my former wife's adultery was the most painful thing I ever experienced and if she felt the need to step out- just divorce me instead. Obviously, this came out of my flesh and do not feel that way anymore but she doesn't know I feel this way now. Do I do anything with this??

[belovedwarrior]

FHFH- I have been pondering your post all day. I have come to the conclusion you are absolutely right on all points. I did not want to be in a vulnerable (humble) position. I did want control of it. I need to let that go- drive it out of me. The little foxes really do destroy the vines then don't they? I will do the verse search on the word humble / humility.

 

Thanks

[belovedwarrior]

How does this sound folks?

 

 

 

It is my current belief / assessment that the reason my wife does not want me doing anything in pursuit of her is by my doing so her heart was being convicted that what she is doing is wrong (dating, being closed to reconciliation / scared of being sucked in by a fraud). She probably feels if my efforts are no longer "in her face" the feelings will decrease and she can then convince herself I am still the same guy that didn't treat her well in the marriage.

 

I now have to learn to trust it is God working on her- which by the way I still do not know how you all can do that so "blindly." I wish I could get there. I have had such a hard time even to begin trusting God with little things. This is no little thing for me- this is a monumental test for me. Letting go of all control. Doing nothing but praying, which quite honestly often feels like wishing.

[Jaya]

BW, a better word than belief or assessment in your first paragraph would have been "My analysis is........" YOUR analysis. This is not about you or your diagnosis of your wife. The why's and wherefor's of why your wife does not want you to pursue her are irrelevant. You pursue your wife by becoming Christlike (you have heard this before). You don't analyze why your wife is doing something a certain way or what she is thinking. You hear what she says, validate it and then change your heart concerning it. you know the L.O.V.E acronym. Right now, obviously, you can not embrace your wife but maybe you can change the E to encourage.

 

The second paragraph - a lot better. Yes, trust that God is working on her behalf and you know He is! It is not a blind trust. It is trust that comes because God is true to His character always and His character says that he will chase after that one lost sheep. and Yes, pray and pray and pray and your pursuit of your wife comes in you becoming Christlike not in you analyzing what she is thinking when she is thinking and where she is when she is thinking. Your pursuit of her comes in you working with her in raising your children without manipulation and control. It comes in you pulling her weeds when she needs it and by doing whatever you can do to bless her. Sending the dvd home with your kids was a great idea. I hope you considered Gaininghope's (i think it was her) suggestion to have the dvd sent back to you with the kids so you can send it back. Your pursuit of her comes from you sending the kids home with cards for her that fit her situations from the KIDS. Trust me, they will be reporting more than you even think they are to your wife. Every Christ-like change you make will get back to your wife - as will every un-Christ-like action. Anyways, keep moving forward. You will get this. I do think you are overanalyzing and spending too much time thinking about what your wife is doing rather than focusing on what is going on in your heart that needs to change and become Christlike. This whole page is nearly about your wife and what she is doing and feeling and very little about the junk that needs to come out of your life.

 

Again, I just want to encourage you - You CAN do this. You can win your wife's heart back and you will have that testimony! Keep moving forward and keep focusing on how you can bless your wife and removing the junk from your own heart. Dieing to self and becoming Christlike. That is your focus.....

 

Jaya

[belovedwarrior]

After I wrote this I did get down on my knees and ask God to draw us both back to Him. That He would create in us both an unwavering trust in His ways and protect us from the influence of the enemy and his attempt to destroy this marriage. I then asked God to speak to me and waited quietly for probably 5 minutes- heard nothing so asked God to fill her with hope, visit her in her dreams and show her what He could do with us as a couple in His kingdom. and remind her so long ago of what He spoke to her, "If you want to be blessed- fix your marriage."

 

I think she took the first step by kicking me out of her life temporarily but somehow got led astray.

 

I will now be reading my next chapter or two of Ken Nair's Discovering. It is chapter 7- wonder if that has anything to say about trusting God?

 

I so wish I could sit and talk with her for a few hours with no distractions.

[belovedwarrior]

I just read my last post and compared it to my most recent prayer-- I am not going to go into it but it was sure less selfish and accusational than the one above. I basically asked Jesus to work in my heart and make me a man worthy of the privilege of giving his life to His daughter. That He would heal her heart of all the pain I caused. That I would be a man that reflects His image and character. And He would bless my wife with restoration of her heart and give her comfort and fill her heart with hope for her future. Give her strength to be a patient,loving mom, give her rest and protect her from the enemy. I am coming to the conclusion I must be Christlike for Christ sake. If I were to have the opportunity now to be back in her life I would most likely fail- destroying her thoroughly in the process and dashing ALL possibilities of having success. God will not let me do that!! Not until He knows I am safe for her will that door to her heart even get a glance through the peep hole.

 

I guess I did go into it. Soon I promise I will read the humility scriptures.

 

Good night,

 

Mark = warrior

David = beloved

 

He named me that for a reason.

[belovedwarrior]

Not a whole lot to report happening other than a text exchange with my wife regarding a special visitation arrangement this weekend with the kids-- I typically get them every other but this weekend is supposed to e very nice weather wise and I so want to take them tubing I asked:

 

ME: I am working on making plans to take the kids tubing this Saturday, I should probably ask if it is ok with you first huh? So if I can arrange it, may I pick up the kids Saturday morning and get them back to you Sunday? (Remember she works nights / sleeps days)

 

Her: That's fine

 

Me: great it is ok if they know I am getting them but tiubing is not set yet.

 

Her: ok

 

Me: 10am Sat work ok for you? (She ought to be sleeping by 10am.)

 

Her: I guess

 

Me: Would Fri. eve. be better? Based upon your sleep needs?

 

Her: I have to think about Fri. but I think it will work.

 

Me: Let me know what works best for you- if it is Friday I could pick them up anytime after 6 so I can get all the homework out of the way and focus 100% on them.

 

and that was it.

 

Today I learned it is pride / lack of humility that keeps a person. including me, from giving up control and allowing God to handle my problems. It is basically making the assumption I know better and can do a better job than God- but because He is not willing to share His glory- it prevents Him from working. What do you think of that FHFH??

[gms]

BW - that looks like a good exchange with her and the more you can make things easy and simple as it relates to dealing with you the more she will see the changes in you over time. For the time being it is also very important that you continue to give her space and resist any tempation to "test the waters" with some kind of a comment like, "see we can get along together" or "I just want you to know that I think you are an incredible woman" or something else along these lines to see what her response might be and how open she is. Stick to the facts and look for opportunities, like you did above, to lighten her load in any way that you can...with no strings attached. Good job BW!