Aim: Get from Intimidation to Intimacy

[life giver]

Hi MJ! What Dory suggests, to give it all to Z, is what I did, right from the get go after the intensive...I didnt hold back, ANYTHING!!! And I expressed it again and again...I needed to know that he was IN!!! Some of the times he would say I already apologized for that, and I said I needed another apology for it, Im still hurting...He would and I would feel better...Soon I was healed of those particular abuses. And truly some of the smaller abuses that are all linked with the major ones, didnt need healing, the feelings just got taken care of through the big apologizes...This is how it worked for me!

 

I believe that half the battle is in knowing/seeing/experiencing that our husbands have seen the hurt and abuse that they have caused us to live in and that they truly do not want to cause/behave like that again...They have a lot of growing up to do and as everyone will agree, it is a process, at least a 3year time frame.

 

Anyways you are doing GREAT! Praying that you dont get discouraged or frustrated in his lack of consistency, that too takes time...

 

Thanks for continuing to share, through your ups and downs. You are very much loved by many!!

 

In His Love,

life giver

[Becoming...]

praying right now

[MaryJane]

Hi MJ! What Dory suggests, to give it all to Z, is what I did, right from the get go after the intensive...I didnt hold back, ANYTHING!!! And I expressed it again and again...I needed to know that he was IN!!! Some of the times he would say I already apologized for that, and I said I needed another apology for it, Im still hurting...He would and I would feel better...Soon I was healed of those particular abuses. And truly some of the smaller abuses that are all linked with the major ones, didnt need healing, the feelings just got taken care of through the big apologizes...This is how it worked for me!

 

I believe that half the battle is in knowing/seeing/experiencing that our husbands have seen the hurt and abuse that they have caused us to live in and that they truly do not want to cause/behave like that again...They have a lot of growing up to do and as everyone will agree, it is a process, at least a 3year time frame.

 

Anyways you are doing GREAT! Praying that you dont get discouraged or frustrated in his lack of consistency, that too takes time...

 

Thanks for continuing to share, through your ups and downs. You are very much loved by many!!

 

In His Love,

life giver

Dear Life Giver! Your whole post is so, life giving! Thank you!

 

I know that's what I needed to do too after our intensive, but I was WAY too inhibited, shall we say. I couldn't say or do much more than the barest of essentials of help-meeting. I almost feel like we're newcomers here! (Books Jan '07, Intensive Oct. '08) I feel like we're an odd couple. We married at the same level, even though we're two totally different personalities.

 

---

 

Thanks Becoming... I believe I could feel the support. Knowing there are people out there who are FOR me, gives me strength.

 

---

 

Well, we've had our session already. It was GOOD.

 

Z said he had asked God to give him the words to say and the the wisdom to know what to do to help me. It worked out just fine.

 

We went to the den to be private and comfortable. He put his arms around me and we began talking. It wasn't too hard for me to open up, partly because of my backing in this ministry, and partly because Z was encouraging me. And, of course, GOD in the whole thing.

 

I used some of Dory's words and John's words, being open with Z about where I got the terminology. In the past, I'd be SO careful about what to tell Z. I didn't want to give him any more fodder to spit back out at me than necessary.

 

Z received everything I said, very well.

 

He had asked me at the start how he was to respond to whatever I was going to say when I released hurts I've had "locked away" (John's words) all these years. I said I would need him to own how he had treated me and validate me.

 

He did a good job. He also stayed with me until I ran out of things to say. It didn't come out in a steady stream either. He didn't get impatient with me -- which was a common occurance in the past. I cried a little, not much. I told him that yesterday I felt like I could cry for the rest of my life. It was like grief, what I was feeling yesterday.

 

He said that's what he was feeling too, but didn't know why. Talking things out is certainly the answer!

 

He rubbed my back with cocoanut oil.

 

And so on. But we are extending the healing balm operations throughout the day...

 

---

 

I feel calm. I guess awareness of this new state of things is sinking in by degrees.

 

It just happened. About 55 minutes ago, now. Didn't take long either, maybe half an hour. Funny, with the help of Our Helper, the Holy Spirit, what took 29 years to mess up, was smoothed out in 30 minutes. To a great degree, at least.

 

I feel confident that whatever other wrinkles show up, they can be more easily dealt with now.

 

Z has gone to town to get the mail. I'm sure he will be processing what has just happened -- as I've been doing here.

 

 

I can't tell you how grateful I am -- to Everybody!

[dory]

When you are at the end of your rope, tie a knot and

[MaryJane]

When you are at the end of your rope, tie a knot and

Wow, that says it all! Thanks.

[son-worshipper]

Miss MaryJane! (as we say it in the South)

 

You wouldn't happen to know something about a special delivery would you?????????????????????????????

 

You are such a blessing to remember such trivia.

 

...and I was afraid I'd received an anniversary gift from JDI. Our 24th anniversary is in about a week. Now April 12th will be our new anniversary.

 

What a relief!

 

Thank you sooooooooooo much. You warm my heart.

 

 

What's blooming at my house? Bleeding hearts, yellow tulips with red tips, several varieties of purple things, purple irises, lilies of the valley, jack in the pulpit, trillium, lavender azaleas, purple and white violets. Last week the cherry, pear, and dogwood trees bloomed, in addition to the purple lilacs, several varieties of daffodils, tulips, and some small yellow flowers that look like comfrey bloomed (primrose?). In the next week or so the rhodadendron and poppies will bloom. I took some photos of the children beside the flowers last week.

[MaryJane]

You warm my heart.

I'm glad. That's what I wanted to do!

 

My oh my! Sounds like a flowering haven you have found for yourself there! That's wonderful. I'm happy for you.

[MaryJane]

I've been wanting to update, but it takes mental energy...

 

Anyway, I still believe we are progressing, but I tend to over-worry about the little bumps, I think. John and Susan helped relieve my mind tonight.

 

Monday, ended up being a major breakthrough day! I forget what got me started down the worry path. Anyway, Z held me while I cried, the hardest and longest I've EVER done in front of a human being! He patted my back and was very "there" for me. I had such a feeling of relief. My lungs felt clearer!

 

He's done this before, once or twice, but this time I felt safe enough to let myself "go" much more. It was SO good.

 

We got on the Monday night call and gave our report.

 

However, a couple of times since then I've felt hurt by one little thing or another that Z has said. And I mean LITTLE things.

 

Both of us are getting really tired of the process.

 

We listened to the call tonight for 3/4 of an hour. Z began explaining to me while the call was on, that a wife needs to understand that a man who is busy at work can't concentrate on loving his wife at the same time, etc. etc... There's no way I was going to fall for that and even try to give it a reply.

 

He wasn't angry just tired of the process, like I said. He went to bed with a look of appeal in his eyes, for me to understand that he's not angry at me, just sort of worn out.

 

I talked this over with John and Susan later. What I remember from their words is a bit like what Dory wrote a few days ago. Susan said that as she was getting healed and feeling safer with John, hurtful things that she would have ignored in the past, became issues. Then she needed to decipher which ones were life-threatening, so to speak, and which ones she could leave for a more convenient time, to deal with. This helped me.

 

John believes in Z. I find that encouraging!

 

They both encouraged me to see that Z and I do fun things in between the growing sessions. We DO some of this, but tonight, I realized that I, personally, need to relax and truly let myself enjoy the in between times. Instead of holding my breath...

[Sister B]

[smilie=hi ya!.gif]

 

Reading here has made me BIG TIME today. Love you Ms. MJ (I'm from the south too!!!) LOL You're doing so good.

[MaryJane]

Thanks Sister B!

 

[smilie=hi ya!.gif](I'm from the south too!!!)

Does this mean you were listening last night?

 

I found myself mulling something over, later, and used the word "progressing" in my mind. I realized I say, "pro-gressing", but "praw-gress". I'll have to report this to John sometime...

 

---

This morning, Z told me he had a headache last night and that was most of the reason he couldn't stay on the call longer. (Good enough apology for me, for now.) We talked some over coffee. He commented on a lady's encouragement to a new caller last night, that this ministry message is God's Word. Z liked that and agrees that he needs to continually see it that way.

 

He suggested praying together. We've missed a few days. So, he asked God, in MY presence to help him be the husband he ought to be!

 

"It's all good."

[MaryJane]

Just a random thought: I need to be in the section (which doesn't exist) called, "Ministry to that Wife Whose Husband is Working to Win Her Heart."

 

Did you notice where the period is?

 

My husband didn't have time to truly win my heart in the first place. When we got married he had to get right down to business tearing me apart...

 

I'm not complaining. It's like Jesus said on the cross, "They know not what they do." Now, Z knows and he's doing something about it! Much better!

[J_W]

Just a random thought: I need to be in the section (which doesn't exist) called, "Ministry to that Wife Whose Husband is Working to Win Her Heart."

 

Did you notice where the period is?

 

My husband didn't have time to truly win my heart in the first place. When we got married he had to get right down to business tearing me apart...

 

I'm not complaining. It's like Jesus said on the cross, "They know not what they do." Now, Z knows and he's doing something about it! Much better!

 

this sounds much better, MJ....

 

the section is called "Ministry to couples who are working together to build an Outrageously Happy Marriage!"

 

are you thinking that you need to be moved to that? is Z going to start posting occasionally? (most of that thread are the wives)

[MaryJane]

I'm not ready for the couples section yet. It feels to me like we are still "working" on the marriage separately. That's OK. I like the "wife whose husband is working to win her heart back" one. I'd just mentally delete the word "back".

 

I feel like I'm ready to move there again...

 

Z doesn't think he can concentrate on posting more just now. It's his male "waffle" brain. He has a lot of springtime outside work to think about.

[J_W]

I getcha

 

MJ, have you considered that part of this underlying sense of insecurity with your relationship with Z is because he has not properly apologized for ALL of the hurts he has heaped on you from the beginning of your marriage?

 

When we first counseled with J&K, they told Ward to write out 100 hurts he had done to me --

I wrote about this in the Men's section under the apologies --

It was NOT until after Ward read Livin' It and Lovin' It (end of the 14th chapter) and also through Angry Men and the Women Who Love them -- and took ownership of all the things he'd done wrong against me (even if he did it as a clueless man, it STILL hurt me), was he able to make that list of 100 hurts and "begin" to apologize for them properly --

 

Even PAUL called himself the "chief of sinners" -- and when Joel does the Intensives he always lets the couples know that HE WAS a jerk, a very abusive husband to Kathy... and that is the HOPE, is that the man CAN change ---

 

however,

 

if he never admits the seriousness of his not agape-loving his bride, not cherishing and honoring her, not living with her with understand, being silent towards her, or neglecting her, etc... if he just fluffs it over with a one word - "shortcoming" or "sin" and yet does not spell out what ALL that is, then I just do not see how you can heal.

 

you may have moments where life "feels" good -- but if there is only a bandaid on that infected wound inside, when it needs to go in and be cleansed (which will probably cause PAIN to both of you) and have the balm applied (which CAN bring healing to both of you and help HIM to grow up), then the hurts, the pains, the doubt, etc is going to continue...

 

This ministry is NOT to help women just "get by" or men to just do the bare minimum. It sounds to me like Z is still not living with understanding (although he HAS IMPROVED in areas) and might not even want to until the change is demanded of you.

 

Please read Livin' It and Lovin' It -- (again)

Please go through the abuse/power/control questionaire

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3188-abusepowercontrol/

Please point your husband to it or tell him that we said he needs to read through the "apology" thread -- Personally, I believe he needs a time limit of 10 days to write out a complete and sincere apology... and if he needs help getting started (after reading Livin' It and also the apology thread) to call in on the conference call --

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/244-great-verbal-apology-written-apology-is-also-here/ (read down to where LotofWorkToDo worked through his apology - this will help a lot)

 

dear heart, I am concerned that you are going to suffer in this back and forth marriage when it COULD be transformed...

 

my .02 -- hope they don't hurt you,

June of

Edited May 6, 2011 by June & Ward
sp

[dory]

I feel like I'm ready to move there again...

Is this an affirmative?

[MaryJane]

Thank you June. I'm going to keep coming back to your post above, #1364. Your very valuable "two cents" didn't hurt me. I'm learning to listen rather than bother letting my feelings get hurt. (A step forward for me.)

 

Right now, I may have to put off digging around in our marriage for awhile. I might be flying to Ontario (1600 miles away) in a couple of days to see an aunt who is dying, they say. She was my grade 4 teacher. I stayed at her place when I REALLY left Z in '08. Z flew out there and we went to the intensive from her place.

 

Plus, there is a big deal happening between one of my brothers and me. He lives over there near my aunt. Z was VERY VERY good with me while I "vented" to my brother on the phone last night! I

 

Is this an affirmative?

It's a "maybe" for now, I guess. I want to check and see if there might be something I wouldn't want moved over.

 

Thank you ladies, from my heart!

[Miss Jane Bennett]

I hope you had a happy Mother's Day, MaryJane.

 

I'll be praying about this trip you're taking--that you'll be able to iron things out with your brother. I'm sorry about the big upset, but grateful that Z was supportive.

[MaryJane]

Thank you very much Miss Jane Bennett, for your kind words.

 

I've decided NOT to go for now. I didn't feel I had the emotional energy.

 

I had thought I might help my aunt's two daughter's-in-law clean out her house -- or, should I say, keep them from throwing out "valuable" family memorabilia. They're nice girls, I know, but, I've only met them briefly, about 3 times.

 

Also, while I'm there, I'd have to talk to a bunch of people -- which normally, I would enjoy... I don't know, the more I write about it, the more I'm considering it again. A good sleep helps make decisions. Think I'll try it.

 

I got one lovely Mother's Day card a couple of days ago from Son 3! It was so sweet! The other 3 didn't get around to phoning or anything this year. I think I'll make an announcement that I WANT a card or a phone call every year from now on. That won't give them any more mother/son issues than they already likely have, will it?

 

Z told me today that I was a good mother, etc. That was nice. However, I realize I need more -- the written word -- either in a store-bought card or his own writings. That just became clear to me today!

 

It feels odd to tell people to give you what you need, doesn't it?

 

---

 

P.S.

 

I have to edit this post! Son 1 just sent a Facebook message. Our phone line has been busy, so he couldn't phone me to give his Mother's Day greetings! Whew! I feel better now!

 

The spring flooding is affecting our lines again. All we have is loud static for a dial tone. I guess it sounds like a busy signal to callers. We can't get on the conference calls either. That's rough!

 

---

 

P.S. #2

 

Another Facebook message: Son 4 tried to phone today too!

 

Feeling better all the time!

Edited May 9, 2011 by MaryJane

[Miss Jane Bennett]

Whew! I'm so relieved there WERE two attempts to call you, and then Facebook messages. I was about to come up there and ... well, I don't know what I would have done. I don't have a cattle prod.

 

Z told me today that I was a good mother, etc. That was nice. However, I realize I need more -- the written word -- either in a store-bought card or his own writings. That just became clear to me today!

 

Your boys were not taught by their dad's example how to meet a woman's emotional needs, as so many, sadly, are not. And although your sons are not responsible to meet your emotional needs, they are responsible to obey the Scriptural command to honor their mother. As I was typing this, I JUST had an idea. Yes, tell Z that you need written words and cards from him on Mother's Day and any other day. Then, why not have Z be the one to tell your boys that a card and a note on Mother's Day would really bless you? That would give Z a mentoring opportunity. Just a thought. And, MaryJane, Z should be giving you a card and flowers on Mother's Day. You are the mother of his children. I'm not saying this to breed any discontent, but you said yourself that you need it, and it's just the expected thing on Mother's Day. (At least around these parts, it is!)

 

When Mr. B and I were first on the road to restoration, one of the things I asked of him was a love note EVERY DAY. I needed words ... spoken ones, and written ones. So I'm right there with you on that one.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Miss Jane Bennett

[Looney_Tunes]

I don't have a cattle prod.

 

You can stop by and pick mine up. I'm on the way.

 

On second thought, stop by and pick ME up!

[Miss Jane Bennett]

You can stop by and pick mine up. I'm on the way.

 

On second thought, stop by and pick ME up!

 

Deal!

[MaryJane]

I really LIKE that deal you two ladies made!

 

I like your ideas too, Miss Jane! Some things are SO simople but so hard to "see" on one's own -- like asking for a note-a-day!

 

Whew... I'm almost sure there is a major VENT coming on for Z's and my benefit. He hasn't done anything really wrong, either. I think it has to do with the things June was talking about, above. I'm NOT healed yet.

 

I've been hinting around to my inner self that the good Z has been doing is enough. That I'm happy with it. But my inner self doesn't believe it. I still need him to perform more emotional therapy on me.

 

I guess, since the vent I had with my brother, I realize that kind of thing may have to come out with Z too. I'm SO used to "pretending" to myself that certain things don't matter -- they pile up and expand greatly before I recognize them.

 

It's raining today (on top of the flood waters). Maybe I can get a good start made on some of that reading June suggested.

 

However, there is a tea at the senior citizens' home where Z's mother is, this afternoon. I need to go for Z's sister's sake. She's taken on ALL the care of their mother. I think that's nice for a daughter to be able to do. I wish I could have done something for my mother. But she was "there", 1500 miles away, and I was here.

 

I am SO thankful for this place where I'm allowed to put my rambling thoughts and feelings. So far, I'm allowed. I keep feeling like I'm going to be asked to stop it, for some reason.

 

---

 

One more thing:

 

Z HAS made me feel safer in our marriage. Otherwise, I would hardly have been able to even CONSIDER venting to him!

Edited May 9, 2011 by MaryJane

[dory]

I keep feeling like I'm going to be asked to stop it, for some reason.

NEVER!

[MaryJane]

NEVER!

Oh! OK.

 

What a POSITIVE word! Thanks Dory.

[Looney_Tunes]

I keep feeling like I'm going to be asked to stop it, for some reason.

 

If I'm allowed to go on about being dizzy and digging in the dirt and shoveling poop, I think we can allow you to ramble a bit.

 

I think we do have to sort of teach ourselves to expect more, don't you? We get so used to settling and telling ourselves that ___ isn't really important. I know I've done that for most of my life.