Newbie encouraged by your ministry

[Miss Jane Bennett]

He never talked to you about your "birthday" post nor tried to make up for that fiasco??? I say do Scarlett's idea, to the last detail. Sounds good to me.

 

Don't do any more for him than he did for you.

 

Give him some cash for his gift, maybe a tad less than he gave you.

 

Don't sing Happy Birthday.

 

Don't remind the kids about his birthday nor have them make cards.

 

Just have the cake party just as Scarlett described.

 

If he expresses disappointment, give him your "birthday" post again (have it ready).

 

It seems like a plan similar to this would be the only thing that might (??) get him to recognize your disappointment over his horrible treatment of you on your birthday.

 

Remember, you said it:

I don't need to obscess over his discomfort

[son-worshipper]

Good morning,

 

Last night before H. and I watched the DVD H. picked up the print-out of the "How to be a Clueless Husband on Your Wife's Birthday." He had it with his WMI notebook.

 

He asked me if Joel had written it. Ha!

 

I told him I wrote it and embellished it with a couple thoughts.

 

He never apologized or understood what a clod he had been that day. IF he understands, he doesn't want me to know.

 

Miss Jane, H. gave me nothing for my birthday. This is NOT new. Christmas & anniversaries are "celebrated" in a similar fashion. I've become accustomed to this, but had expectation of change after being with this ministry.

 

We watched about an hour of the second DVD.

[Miss Jane Bennett]

Dear SW, all this makes me so sad. And mad.

 

Last night before H. and I watched the DVD H. picked up the print-out of the "How to be a Clueless Husband on Your Wife's Birthday." He had it with his WMI notebook.

 

He asked me if Joel had written it. Ha!

 

I told him I wrote it and embellished it with a couple thoughts.

 

He never apologized or understood what a clod he had been that day. IF he understands, he doesn't want me to know.

What were the thoughts you added? Did you express your hurt? It dawned on me that your "Clueless Husband" piece doesn't actually say that you are hurt from this, does it? I mean, to most people that would be a duh. But if he is so clueless as to treat birthdays and anniversaries and Christmases this way, he doesn't know how hurtful it is unless you make it very clear! The more I think about it, the more I believe his birthday should go by unheralded at all. Maybe he won't even care. Some men don't.

 

I have another idea. Is daughter #1 in the loop on your birthday disappointment? (I'm going to pray about this before I put it here.)

 

Good going on your DVD watching and conference calls. Did you watch #2 yesterday?

[son-worshipper]

What were the thoughts you added?

 

H. did not mock my mom or the flowers she sent, nor did he give me cash, or expect a great night in bed, although he has done these things in the past.

 

He doesn't realize the pain his cluelessness has caused

 

He didn't give me anything for my birthday. In the past H. has occasionally given $100 cash in what seems like an afterthought for some Christmas or birthdays.

 

 

Did you express your hurt?

 

It dawned on me that your "Clueless Husband" piece doesn't actually say that you are hurt from this, does it? I mean, to most people that would be a duh. But if he is so clueless as to treat birthdays and anniversaries and Christmases this way, he doesn't know how hurtful it is unless you make it very clear!

 

Yes, this hurt me very much. I expected a change this year..

 

I have another idea. Is daughter #1 in the loop on your birthday disappointment?

 

I think so, but don't really know. She's had so much pain and anxiety recently it's hard to know.

 

 

Good going on your DVD watching and conference calls. Did you watch #2 yesterday?

 

Yes, we watched about an hour of the DVD last night. He didn't really want to do so, but I insisted.

[Cinderella]

Oh my SW... here is the bottom line:

J&K say:"why wouldn't someone want to learn to have a good marriage from people who are living it?"

Apparently, since H is NOT doing what J&K TOLD him to do, it appears that he does NOT want an OHM. So, just ask him that question.... let me know what he says.

[son-worshipper]

We had an argument this morning.

 

H. rants & raves & dubs me a "brainless idiot who can't think for herself."

 

We were discussing the NEED to put braces on at least two children's teeth NOW, while we can still get almost $1,000 of the fees (each)reimbursed by his insurance...before the plant closes.

 

One road of reasoning led to another...as always happens. We cannot discuss one topic to conclusion.

 

SW We need to put braces on our two kids now.

SW Would it be worth it to drive an hour for an appointment for a less expensive orthodontist?

H We can't afford braces for the kids now.

H Why haven't you got a job?

H Why haven't you sent in the insurance claims for reimbursement?

H Why didn't you do all the things you said you wanted to do years ago?

homeschooling

being a stay at home mom

H Why don't you keep the house clean?

 

SW H., you sabotaged every effort I made to homeschool. Your behavior declared you didn't want the kids homeschooled.

 

SW H., your behavior led the kids disrespect me, and to be disobedient and rebellious. They don't help keep this house in order (We have 5 kids at home). The kids are a reflection of what you've planted in them.

 

H Yea, sure, I'm responsible for how they are! That's right, I'm responsible for EVERYTHING! You're just a "brainless idiot" who can't think for herself.

 

.................

 

H. refuses to acknowledge his behavior influences the children. The results are disobedient children and a disorderly home. I've allowed this because I've stayed in this situation and not demanded a change.

 

H. holds me 100% responsible for the condition of our home. It's a constant fight to get the children to help keep OUR home in order. I end up doing what little gets done. It's easier than fighting.

 

Why do I put up with this? Someone remind me.

 

.....................

 

Scarlett, H. doesn't want to learn from someone who has a successful marriage because it hurts him too much to take the responsibility to change. I'll have to ask him that question Scarlett.

[son-worshipper]

Scarlett & Miss Jane, I would not feel comfortable doing what was suggested even though it would be funny.

 

That would be repaying evil for evil....well, not really evil per se, but repaying bad behavior with bad behavior.

 

Yesterday evening H. got stuck on a project for hours. It was not his fault this time. We have (present tense ) a leak in the water line coming to the house. It turned into a very long job, requiring two trips to town for supplies. It was a late night with the water turned off all evening....late supper, kids didn't get bathed, etc...

 

H. didn't come to our bedroom until 10:00 pm. Both of us were very tired, so we didn't watch the DVD as planned. H. could have come upstairs at a half an hour sooner, but preferred to watch the news/weather rather than the DVD. I did insist he come upstairs twice, but he ignored me. I didn't turn off the computer or a fight would have ensued.

 

I am usually in bed at 9:00 pm, so did not insist on watching the DVD when he got out of the shower.

 

He asked me yesterday if I want to go to dinner with him today. He WOULD go without me. Our favorite place to eat is an Italian restaurant which offers free birthday meals.

 

He left a little bit ago to run to the flea market (25 miutes away) to buy bread products. I didn't mention his birthday.

 

Should I repay bad behavior with bad behavior? Should I ignore his birthday? He has never apologized for his behavior on my birthday. He doesn't seem to realize his behavior WAS unacceptable.

[Cinderella]

It is not tit-4-tat... it is you growing up in order to make your H grow into the man God calls him to be. It is so that you can have that OHM that you are so desperately desiring... REMEMBER???? That is why you brought your H to the Intensive. You've been dying for H for years and years... God is calling H to DIE FOR YOU as Christ died for his bride. We, as wives, need to grow up too (remember???). It is harder for us (per J&K) during the process of getting to an OHM, than it is for our husbands!! Stay strong and get that OHM you so deserve, my sweet friend .

 

Keep us abreast of what happens today---I want to know who died today for whom??? .

[Aslan's Child]

Hi, Son-Worshipper,

 

I have been following along a bit. I've not been on the forums much lately as I used to. In everything I've read over the past page or so, H doesn't seem to be doing much of anything different than what he used to before the intensive. He reluctantly watches the DVD's. He's calling you names. He's not being helpful with the children. It seems from what I've read here that he's living as if he doesn't have the information from Joel and Kathy at all.

 

At this point, LO and I think you're only option is to go dark. Don't cook his meals, don't do his laundry, etc. Tell him if he's not willing to grow and let Joel and Kathy and all the helpers here help him, then you're not willing to live this way any longer, and if he wants to be roommates, so be it.

 

LO says justdewit has to take responsibility for his own actions, and stop blaming his wife. Anything he's blaming you for, he's caused. LO says you can tell justdewit from him: "That if you don't start taking responsibility for his actions, you are going to lose your wife very soon. If you're doing the program, the program is not just watching the DVD's. The program is laying your life down for your wife, focusing on her needs, not yours, and loving her unconditionally. If you can't make that choice to do that, your marriage is in deep jeopardy.

 

If you want to fix your marriage, make the choice to do something about it. Stop blaming SW, and JUST DO IT! Start posting. Get on the phone calls. Get some help. Here's an analogy: If you have a broken arm, you're not going to have SW wear a cast, so your arm can heal. You need to fix yourself and deal with your issues. Stop trying to fix SW. Learn how to be a blessing to her instead. In other words, be a man, and not run away from your problems like a child."

 

SW, I'm sorry you're still hurting so much. Your H has the information, and the tools and the resources to make things better, but from what I'm seeing, he's choosing not to and you and your children are suffering because of it. Justdewit, I wonder if you're not on the calls and not seeking help, because deep down you know SW's right, but she can't fight back like a moderator can. You can do this. It's a choice. Make the right choice. God wants to bless you, but how can He when you keep hurting His daughter?

[Miss Jane Bennett]

Hope you're going dark today. Perfect day to go dark.

 

I need to do the same thing.

[Cinderella]

Wow, AC and LO, perfectly put.

 

AC said:

At this point, LO and I think you're only option is to go dark. Don't cook his meals, don't do his laundry, etc. Tell him if he's not willing to grow and let Joel and Kathy and all the helpers here help him, then you're not willing to live this way any longer, and if he wants to be roommates, so be it.

There you go, SW. Now you have a clear vision as to what steps to take next.

 

AC wrote:

she can't fight back like a moderator can.

Bingo. That, SW, is why he wages war on you and won't stand up to the big-dogs on the calls... he knows he's wrong.

 

Don't forget:

Keep us abreast of what happens today---I want to know who died today for whom???

Love you

[son-worshipper]

I confronted H. when he came home this morning.

 

I told him I wanted to be able to celebrate his birthday, but couldn't because of how he treated me on MY birthday. I told him he needed to apologize for his behavior and set a date for a real birthday celebration for me.

 

I told him I'll gladly celebrate his birthday with him after these requirements are met. I told him he'll have to arrange the babysitter for my dinner.

 

I told him I'm not going to die for him any more. God calls him to die for me.

 

...thanks to Scarlett for these suggestions. Thank you for helping me see my need to take these steps.

 

H. got tears in his eyes as I pulled out my note and started talking to him. I was very teary too. I looked at the note several times to make sure I didn't forget anything.

 

H. apologized. It started out good but went south when he added "I'm sorry you feel this way." I stopped him and redirected his apology.

 

He didn't like being corrected. This turned into an argument when he started defending himself more and more, got louder, and angry.

 

We went to church. It was great. The sermon was about God's love, and how we cannot love others until we love God.

 

We later discussed when we'll go out for MY dinner (next Monday afernoon).

 

We went to dinner at the Italian restaurant ...with the three youngest kids. One child is gone, one we couldn' get hold of, and one was sick.

 

On the way home we were talking about the fiasco on my birthday. He says he has no sorrow over what happened that day because it was a complete misunderstanding, not something intentional. I disagreed, telling him although he misunderstood that I wanted stay at the restaurant for as little time as possible, the rest of his behavior that day was utterly thoughtless. He disagreed.

 

I told him he needs to think about how he can make his "apology" meaningful to me...such as give me a hug and hold me for a while. He didn't have much of a response...I don't remember what he said, but it was obviously nothing that made me feel loved or cherished.

 

Now I don't feel like we made any progress on this topic.

[Eeyore]

I have not followed your whole thread, but just from your last post I wanted to pop in and say that it sounds like you are doing a great job! I agree that your hubby needs to try again with his apology. Being sorry "that you feel that way" and sorry that he hurt you are not the same thing. I am proud of you for holding his feet to the fire.

 

He didn't like being corrected.

 

Noone likes being corrected. Too bad for him! You are doing the job that GOD has called you to do. You are being a HELPMEET. He may not like it, but have to do your part! You do not have a choice but to obey and he has not choice to do his part. That is how it works!

 

Even if you are hurt by a "misunderstanding", you were still hurt. If someone ran into your car "by accident", are they not still responsible? It is a simple concept. We expect our children to live by the same example... you apologize when you hurt someone, whether you "meant to do it" or not.

 

Blessings to you as you move forward!!

[Giving Hope]

SW

 

(Jeff hasn't had the chance to read everything yet...but I will ask him to do so this evening.)

 

First, with his birthday coming up, it' re-opening a wound in you. A wound that needs some healing, before you can celebrate his birthday. Sounds like you have plans now for Monday to re-celebrate your birthday and find some healing there. That's good start...(Hopefully hubby is reading this as well,) but it needs to go even further than that. Heart felt apologies, flowers, cards, etc...

 

If this doesn't happen, then how are you going to celebrate his birthday when you are still hurting over yours? If you celebrate his birthday and are not allowed to celebrate yours, then you are sending him a message that Say's YOUR special day is not as important as his. And in this role, you are being the "husband" in the relationship...when it needs to be the other way around.

 

As for the rest. You did very well in stating your needs there. Making sure you are watching the DVDs and doing the reading are good starts...but its not going to get you to the other side, unless he backs it all up with ACTIONS...

 

It sounds to me, like he is holding alot of resentment for having to step up and go first in making the changes he needs to make. Also, sounds as if he is struggling with his own relationship with God. He has now resorted back in to the "toddler" again, throwing his temper tantrums. Call him on this. When you act like a toddler, you will not engage with him. Walk away and let him know that you will not tolerate this and when he can talk to you like an adult and Christlike man, then you will converse back with him.

 

Until then, stick to your guns here. Don't worry about hurting his feelings, who cares if he doesn't like to be corrected...that's the only way he's going to learn and make the real changes he needs to make.

 

As for the braces....If you feel this needs to get done...set up the appointment and get it done...Don't worry about what he thinks and feels at this point..Your children need this, you have the means for it, then do it.

Take that control out of his hands.

 

Everyone has given you so really great ideas here...so think about them as well and use the advice given as well...

 

Heather

[Aslan's Child]

He didn't like being corrected. This turned into an argument when he started defending himself more and more, got louder, and angry.

 

When LO and I are trying to discuss something, and he starts to get defensive or blame shift or whatever, I'll ask him right then and there, "Are you justifying?" "Are you defending?" and it diffuses his line of thinking.

Noone likes being corrected. Too bad for him! You are doing the job that GOD has called you to do. You are being a HELPMEET. He may not like it, but have to do your part! You do not have a choice but to obey and he has not choice to do his part. That is how it works!

 

Even if you are hurt by a "misunderstanding", you were still hurt. If someone ran into your car "by accident", are they not still responsible? It is a simple concept. We expect our children to live by the same example... you apologize when you hurt someone, whether you "meant to do it" or not.

 

Exactly!

 

Now I don't feel like we made any progress on this topic.

 

I know how hard this is, but you are making progress. Maybe Jusdewit is still behaving like a toddler, but you are growing up. You are changing how you deal with him and react to him, and as you get stronger in doing this, and holding his feet to the fire, he is going to have to change, because the same old bad behaviors are not going to work. You are doing a great job saying what you need and how you feel. It's his job to take your feedback and grow from it.

 

Hang in there. Growing up is hard, why do you think they coined the phrase "Growing Pains".

[MaryJane]

Son Worshipper!

 

I love it that you read him your note! And HOW you read it!

 

As a fellow weak-kneed wife, I believe I understand how much courage it took.

 

He heard you, it sounds like. His response faltered pretty badly after a good start, but at least you can pat yourself on the back today!

 

God bless you!

[Jeff]

SW,

I just wanted to point out that the bible spells it out pretty clearly.

 

Proverbs 15:32

 

He who ignores discipline despises himself, but whoever heeds correction gains understanding.

 

Basically a wise man embraces correction. That is your job as a help meet to provide correction as God has called you too.

 

After all the bible also calls your husband to "live in knowledge and understanding" with you.

 

God Bless,

Jeff

[dory]

AWESOME posts all!

 

I too loved the part where she read from a piece of paper! That was the first time my spine grew a little too! Keep writing, Keep reading from that paper! And he will soon learn that he can NOT knock you off balance by arguing and justifying. You have your paper to keep you on task. GOOD GIRL!

 

And yes, go dark until your needs are met first. Then when he does what you need and or ask, then most definately reward him like a puppy.

Should I repay bad behavior with bad behavior? Should I ignore his birthday? He has never apologized for his behavior on my birthday. He doesn't seem to realize his behavior WAS unacceptable.

 

Going dark is not t!t for tat, it is holding up a mirror. It FEELS sinful to us arrested wives because of our desire for our husbands, and because of our female need to nurture a relationship. The men have a fleshly need to CHALLENGE or WIN to the max, WE have a fleshly need to NURTURE to the max. There are times when challenge is a good desire and when nurture is a good desire, just as there are times when these desires are also very harmful. nurturing an abusive man is harmful. I know that 1PET3:1 talks about being quiet and meek to win him, but the context of 1PET3 was also in the times of NERO when people were slaves and not expected to live very long and he was talking about unsaved husbands. Peter wanted those folks to all go to heaven like NOW. We are not slaves and we are not in danger of dying tomorrow and your husband is not an unsaved man. He is a Christian who is in need of rebuke and truth for the abusive way he is treating you.

 

You are not putting a knife to his chest, you are simply not celebrating his Birthday as he did to you. That, my dear is not sinful, it is simply mirroring his detached behavior. Duck my dear, and LET him reap what he sows.

[son-worshipper]

Thanks for ALL your input.

 

I still don't feel make much real progress because H. became so argumentative and defensive on the way home from the restaurant. The part about not feeling any sorrow for his behavior that day troubles me.

 

We didn't watch any of the DVD yesterday. I doubt we'll watch much this evening either, since he has to finish fixing the water leak. I do plan to push to get ON the call tonight, but he'll likely try to duck out of that. He'll be willing to listening, but God forbid I expect him to talk.

[Cinderella]

SW, I've heard helpers on the calls tell the wives to just walk to the husband and HAND him the phone.

 

There you go .

 

Try it, you've been doing good. Don't let his "tude" throw you off of the path you've started down. You need to grow and MAKE him grow too.

 

IF YOU WANT TO BE ON THE CALL TONIGHT AND IF YOU ALSO WANT H ON THE CALL TONIGHT, THEN MAKE IT HAPPEN.

 

Remember?? For 6 months it's all about you... I think you'll get an extension though .

[Cinderella]

WOW, loved hearing you on the call tonight. Great job getting both of you on with the moderators! John and Wen and others were very good. You must have been happy. I loved when Kay reminded him to make all the special holidays special... V-Day, Mother's Day, Birthday, etc...

 

Re-do birthday!!! Yippee!!! Can't wait to hear what gifts you get and where dinner was celebrated. Let me know what "surprise" you get! Can't wait til next Tuesday for all the details. I'm very happy for you. (Do you think he'll call LargeOne for some tips???)

[Miss Jane Bennett]

Oh, shoot, I missed hearing you on the call. I had to hang up after we talked and keep dealing with things here. Glad it went well.

[son-worshipper]

The re-do will have to take place after next Thursday. We had planned for Monday the 10th, but H's schedule changed. He's moving to midnight shift this Sunday.

 

I had to reschedule two of my daughter's out of town appointments this week. I may have to rescedule the other appointment in NC Friday. She has the "flu." Her PCP thinks it's the true flu, but who knows...they didn't test her for it. No one else in the family is ill and she's been sick over a week. The PCP thinks she picked it up in the hospital while staying with her friend who recently had a baby.

 

H. handled the advice made during the conference call well. He wasn't argumentative or rude after the call. That's a good step in the right direction. I'm sorry we had so much trouble with our phone last night.

 

Today is our middle daughter's last day of marching band camp. She's not real nuts about it. I encouraged her to stick with it until after the first football game.

 

I'm having a very difficult time emotionally. My youngest daughter is 5, but ready for school. There are no half-day kindergarten programs in this area. She will be gone 9 hours a day just for kindergarten. That is outrageous! H. seems like he could care less, as long as they're all out of the house. It's ripping my heart out. It's bad enough the 7 year old is gone that long each day.

 

The bus picks the children up 45 minutes before school begins; we're the first stop in the morning. That makes us the last stop after school. I could let our senior high student drive them to school, but I'm not comfortable with that idea either.

[Miss Jane Bennett]

I'm having a very difficult time emotionally. My youngest daughter is 5, but ready for school. There are no half-day kindergarten programs in this area. She will be gone 9 hours a day just for kindergarten. That is outrageous! H. seems like he could care less, as long as they're all out of the house. It's ripping my heart out. It's bad enough the 7 year old is gone that long each day.

Oh, SW, I am so sorry--that IS outragreous. I wish you could put her in a Christian school. Those K-5's are usually half-day programs. But if you can't afford to it's a moot point. What about home-schooling her?

 

I'm so glad Jusdewit responded well to the call last night.

 

So, you have longer to plan your big birthday re-do! Dream big! Make it a memorable day!

[Miss Jane Bennett]

Her friend that had the baby ... this is the girl I met, right?? How are they doing?! Bummer that daughter #1 got sick. Let me know if/when you are coming through here when you go for the appointments.