He says he's willing to do what it takes...

[Guest Mrs.Clean]

He sent me a mean text at around 9:20 telling me to go read my pillow (it says, "put on your big girl panties and deal with it."

 

Before 10 PM, he had texted an apology, and told me that he should have realized I was just trying to teach him to be more Christlike with others.

 

I realize that is a really difficult lesson to learn, and probably even MORE difficult when it comes to his ex wife. I'm very proud of him for recognizing my intent and apologizing so quickly.

 

I texted him that I was going to bed, but that I still love him and he is still the man of my dreams, but that maybe I need to work on my timing (bad day to bring up all of this stuff)...I told him I'd call him first thing in the morning as usual.

 

So, YAY Mr. Clean...satan and his crafty minions sent us a huge hurdle, and he cleared it...scraped his shin on the way over, but cleared in nevertheless! Pressing forward toward the finish line!!!

 

I love him.

 

Take Care,

Julie

[TimothyPaul]

Remember Julie,

 

for us guys its one step forward and then two steps back. Sometimes we get to have a great day and its one step forward, two steps back but then three steps forward again.

 

Sounds like it was one of those better days at the end.

 

Don't doubt yourself, every time you help Damon self correct you are bringing you both closer to God's plan. Even when its painful.

 

He's on the path, sometimes for me it can take 24 hours for something to kick in. Sometimes, I am blessed and it takes less time.

 

Peace and Blessings......TP

[dory]

but that maybe I need to work on my timing

 

Ummm, no. You trying to figure out the best time to bring something up is you trying live in understanding of HIM. that is backwards.

 

The way you brought things up seemed very reasonable.

 

Somehow we got back on the subject of what we argued about this morning, which is that I don't like him calling her names. This morning he specifically called her a greedy b****. I understand that he has anger toward her, I understand that he's not happy that she's trying to get more and more money. I understand that she hasn't made the best life choices. But I was trying to point out to him that NEITHER did he. I mentioned the verse in the Bible about not plucking the sliver out of your friends eye and ignoring the plank in yours. He asked me, "what plank is in my eye right now, Julie?" ???????? Well, maybe pride? I tried to explain that it is only because of GRACE that he is saved, and that he isn't back in MO, eating himself into a coma, with nobody to love. It is only because of GRACE that I am here, right now, instead of out hitting the bars and slumming around town! God is the ONLY reason that we are okay right now...so I just wanted him to realize that we are NO BETTER than her.

 

This was very well done.

 

I couldn't get it through to him, and then he started trying to tell me that he's going to start giving me advice like that...like, "don't have sex with your ex husband the next time he comes over." That was an openly abusive jab...so I just hung up.

 

Yep. immature jab.

 

I truly just wanted to be his helpmeet and point this out to him in a loving way. I even told him that if he wasn't doing it, then great...all he needs to say is, "thanks, babe! Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea I was doing it, so next time you hear me doing it, tell me right then." But again, I feel that was wasted on him.

 

Its too bad that this constructive help did not yield good results. Yes, you did good. The moment he becomes abusive, you need to "black out" for a spell so that he can be alone with his thoughts, go to God, and hopefully recover without inflicting more damage to your super tender heart.

 

If there was something that YOU could have done differently it would be to suggest that he do the stuff regarding the ex wife at YOUR house as that is how it will need to be done post August anyway. At least what I would have done. i couldn't have trusted to have him go elsewhere on a computer. I would need to see what he is writing to his ex. I would need accountability that he is not doing stuff that he knows he shouldn't - stuff that would temporarily cause his mother-son issues and his defensiveness to come to head like this. This is my suspicion as to what might have happened. With second marriages and blended families like this, we are getting a package deal -a package of baggage that we must deal with as a one-flesh team. I know you said you were happy he was "taking care of it" but it will leave you feeling restless as to what exactly he was doing - especially given his history of deception. He needs to be an open book in this regard so that (1) you can help him, and (2) so that you can feel at ease with what he is doing with "your" collective finances and thus future. The baggage is part of the "bed" we made when we unwittingly get tangled into second marriages (ask me how I know? ) This doesn't mean you need to "just accept" all that is not right, but it does mean that you and he need to work together as a team to sort out the tangled mess. He would do well to absorb and consider your input. It would not only help smooth out his communication with his ex-wife, but it would also go a long way towards settling YOUR heart so that his life at home with you is well with him.

 

I think he feels threatened by your level of maturity. It would do him a world of good to lay down those feelings of threat and pride and embrace the gift that God gave to him thru you. You are only there to bless him, not hurt him. Its high time he realize that.

[Tigger]

AMEN

 

Dory was spot on, I neither could add anything, nor take anything awsy. Her post was perfect. Great wisdom from one little fish.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

[Kay]

Don't doubt yourself

 

Believe your Beliefs and Doubt your Doubts. It's when you mix the two up, believing your doubts and doubting your beliefs when you get yourself into trouble. Trust me, I learned THAT from experience. Satan just loves to pull at our weaknesses.

 

I learned this from a cute little blue fish.

 

Make sure that Damon READS in the books every single day, and when you notice the backsliding, double up on his reading time.

 

Damon, listen to your helpmeet, and remember, she is not your enemy, nor are we. All here to help you grow because we care. When those nerves get touched, and the knee jerk reactions come, understand it for what it is........... your arrested development.... Trust Julie. She has Christ inside of her, and the Holy Spirit speaks through her, to help you! Good Job on apologizing and recovering!

 

Kay

[Guest Mrs.Clean]

Thanks everyone for your help in getting past this past hurdle.

 

It was rough and scary, I won't lie.

 

Damon apologized really quickly on Thursday night...but then Friday, I still felt a lot of distance from him, and I needed a lot of reassurance that I didn't get. So when he came over on Friday night, I still felt really distant and cold toward him.

 

I don't know how we got into it, but we went back to the ex wife situation and he still didn't see things the way I did. He was trying to be Christlike, but I could still sense anger and maybe pride in his attitude. It was really hard. I told him that I felt distant from him, and very afraid and even my new, gorgeous engagement ring was uncomfortable to me because I felt like I didn't want to be with him at that moment. I did not feel safe. He actually said to me that he was doing all that he could and he didn't know what else to do. I was upset that he said that, but I realize that he has been working VERY hard...but I was still left needing more. More reassurance, more attention. Just more. I don't know why.

 

Anyway, I raised my voice, I started crying and then everything came out. Every instance that had occured between us since last Saturday when we had sex that gave me doubts about his Christlikeness came out of my mouth. I had no idea that I had even been keeping track. But I guess what it all boiled down to is that after we had sex, I was just waiting for the abuse to start, and for him to go back to that guy that he used to be. So, every time he did something that reminded me of that old guy, it chipped away at any closeness or security I had felt with him. So, by the time I got to the end of the week, I was just a few hairs away from being totally disengaged.

 

Once all of that stuff started coming out, Mr. Clean did faithfully switch into HEAD mode, and he held me and reassured me and changed his voice to that soft tone that calms me. He apologized, and promised to give me what I needed, and even if he felt like he was doing all he could, he would do more if that was what I needed. Honestly, all I needed was him to hold me and reassure me and let me safely tell him all of those instances that made me worry...and VALIDATE my concerns. Which he did.

 

This was all right at 9 PM...which is when my call was supposed to start...so then I ended up being late on my call. Sorry ladies.

 

He was going to leave when I started my call, but instead he stayed and did the dishes, mopped the floor, rubbed my feet, sat next to me and just stayed in my presence. I really needed that attention. When he left that night, I felt blessed, refreshed and back to being connected to him. Back to being safe.

 

This morning, he called me and asked me what I wanted to do today...ready to come visit me...EAGER to be with me. Also what I needed. I needed to know that he wasn't feeling exhausted from a week of work and he didn't want to come be with me and the kids. Even if that WAS the truth, I'm happy that he didn't tell me. We loaded up the kids and took my ring back to the jewelry store...it has some prongs that needed some work...now I will be without it for 3 days. Then we toook the boys to lunch at Johnny Rockets. While we were there, the babysitter called and told me that some plans she had for tonight fell through, so she could babysit for us. Yay! So we went home, put the boys down for a nap and napped ourselves (with no sex...yay!). Then we woke up and got ready for our date and left when the babysitter got here.

 

We went to see Shrek in Imax and 3d. It was awesome. I highly recommend that movie. He validated me through the entire thing, and apologized when Shrek did to Fiona what Damon had done to me. We want to see it again. It is now my all time favorite movie, it is just that good. I mean, Shrek even DIES for her at one point!

 

Then, Damon let me pick another movie to watch, so we went to see Letters to Juliet, which I had wanted to see for a long time. Well, it was a cute movie, but not really worth the time and money spent...but that's okay. It was SO NICE that he agreed to watch it with me and didn't whine. I told him when we left the theater that since he did that movie with me, he could go see Prince of Persia by himself.

 

We won't be able to go on dates like these for much longer. It is incredibly expensive to do this with a sitter and movies like we like...but it is just what I needed and I was so thankful to be able to go.

 

It really is amazing to be able to spend the rest of your life with the love of your life...AND have the added blessing of having him spend his life living in an understanding way with you. To have a husband who listens to you and wants to know and understand your heart is the most precious thing in the world, I think. I never knew what it was like to have a relationship like this. To be and feel pursued and valued...totally LOVED. That is something completely new for me. It has been wonderful. And I am very thankful to Damon for continuing to try and pursue and die and love...it takes a lot of work, but I know that it is worth it for both of us in the long run.

 

Take Care,

Julie

[CHeRIsh]

Hey you two, that was a super duper GREAT recovery! This is SO awesome! What an encouragement! Thank you for sharing!

 

,

CHeRIsh

[Kay]

 

Need I say more??

[Guest Mrs.Clean]

Thank, you KK and Cherish!

 

Yes, he is doing great.

 

And God is great in how He designed a marriage relationship. Because Damon went first and gave me life, I made him corned beef and cabbage AND peanut brittle. He will be one happy and full man this evening!

 

Take Care,

Julie

[Mr. Clean]

Sitting here eating my peanut brittle. MMMMMMMMMMMMMM! Thanks hun! Looking forward to dinner! Maybe I shouldn't give her so much life? It's making me fat! Lol. JK. She's super! And knows how to take care of her man! A great responder, and a great helpmeet! She's looking very beautiful today! (as she does everyday!) We had a fun day yesterday, even though it was so hot outside! The ice cream helped. It always does! lol. That's why I brought some over when I came today. Had to stop and get us some groceries, but ice cream and cotton candy weren't on her list! What a blessing a dollars worth of cotton candy can bring!

 

I really am greatful to Mrs. Clean for teaching me to be more Christlike to others, especially those who are against me. She is doing a geat job of being my helpmeet! I'm sorry for not seeing immediately that she was only trying to help me. I was focused on anger towards my ex, and couldn't see clearly. Sorry dear. I love you. I need you soooooo much, and can't do this without her! I thank and praise God for her! She is so perfect for me! My own personal miracle and gift from God! I pray I can be worthy of such a gift! I pray I can be as good of a gift to her! That is one of my daily prayers.

 

Getting noisey in here. I have trouble concentrating. Jacob wants Daddy's attention!

 

God bless,

Mr. Clean

[Pure in Heart]

Mrs Clean

 

I just love you so much. You are so endearing. I want your heart to explode with happiness.

 

It is like a honeymoon, sweetie in the beginning steps. The awe of God, the thrill of being in love again. It is so wonderful. When all of life can be so cold it is a wonder knowing we can finally run into our tower of strength who is our Christ-like husband.

 

Love must be proven. To draw out the indescribable excellency of love, it must be tested. It is all good. When your love is tested there will come something immovable underneath holding you both together. The Lord becomes involved in ways you could never grasp or dream. The romance is great but when maturity connects with love...watch out. It is the stuff OHM's are made of. You will see that you will weave in and out of all the facets of love. They are ALL for our growth and understanding.

 

We learn as couples to take care of those bumps when they come up...one after the other. Some trials are more painful than others. Some we stay in too long. Others we try to ignore. When we both work through each and every trial or hurt that comes up something wonderful starts to happen. A new depth of closeness and understanding comes. Being truly "One flesh" is restored in us. What we once thought would carry us through, and sustain our marriage like romance and feelings of joy, we find that having to grow up together moves us closer together. As married couples the sweetness of joy and romance becomes the icing on the cake and not he cake itself. This process actually makes the romance even more mature...aged to perfection.

 

Every marriage is different. The principles are always under girding us but the way it plays out will be different. It will be according to her NEEDS. She has that manual written on her heart. i personally believe on her heart is also written God's beautiful and perfect purposes for them as a couple. Her heart will lead that man to see his great destiny. To rise up in strength and life and walk together in it. God is so amazing. Inside my heart I always believed in Joshua more than he did. I always prayed to see him the way God does. Asking the Lord where was he leading my husband and how could I as a help-meet facilitate His wondrous plan? I know my husband's character must match his calling.

 

God has called you and Damon together. Your lives will make a difference in His Kingdom. That is where you are both going. Wrapped inside the gift of a Godly marriage is a destiny. God is kind to give us someone to walk this out in togetherness and purpose. Cur search for significance is being loved. From being rooted and grounded in love is the springboard for the rest of your lives to be free to do His will.

 

When we look and long to see His plan it makes the mundane and struggle worth it. Working out the little things, those learning processes that are "line upon line" only reinforce and strengthen the big picture.

 

As a wife you are showing Damon the pathway to his purpose. Not only how to relate to you but also to His Maker.

 

I am proud of Damon that he recovered. That he came back around and ministered to your heart. That is being a MAN for sure. The saying, You can't keep a good man down, rings true in this process.

 

 

I ramble. Bear with me!!

 

My heart's cry is for couples to see that an OHM is just the beginning. I have a vision to see in your lives His calling come to pass. To say, Look up, look up you two...Jesus is calling your names!! To come to the Kingdom for such a time as this. In the fullness of time, for His great love to intersect with His plan. To "present" His Bride without spot or wrinkle. Damon is Christ's and in being a husband, he is also being made into that image of Christ's glorious Bride.

 

The Father loves you both with an everlasting love.

 

With affection,

 

Kimberly

[Guest Mrs.Clean]

Kimberly,

 

Thank you so much for that post. It gave me SUCH encouragement. I know it will give Damon encouragement as well. I can't wait to read it to him (I often read him the posts...he likes that, and so do I!).

 

It's funny you wrote about maturing together. Damon and I feel like we were drawn to each other because we are arrested in all of the same areas. We both need to grow up in the same places...and we are looking forward to the road ahead. Our marriage is our priority now, next, our finances...all with the goal of fulfilling God's divine purpose for our lives. I know I have a calling, but I don't pretend to know what it is, and I know Damon does, too. We are both so excited to see where God leads us. Wherever He leads us, we will gladly follow!

 

What a shepherd He is!!!!

 

While I was on the call with you guys tonight, something popped in my head...and I didn't say anything because I really want to think on it...but I really feel that Damon sometimes, because of the time he spent STUCK in that old skin, still thinks within the realm of only those capabilities. What I mean is, that he doesn't realize the POWER of God and how God is going to completely and radicallly change our lives.

 

We were talking about the lottery yesterday, and he bought a ticket last week and didn't win. I told Damon that I didn't like the lottery, and if God wanted us to have 240 million dollars, he would just GIVE it to us. I believe he still sees the world through the eyes of someone who has been beaten and broken somtimes.

 

Just like this evening. I was telling him my dream of our boys saving not only their virginity for their wives, but their first kisses as well. He said that there was no way that was going to happen. My question? Why not? In my eyes, if God can take our relationship from where it was to where it is today, who is to say where we will be in 15 more years! God has an amazing work to accomplish in us! AND our children!

 

Our babysitter last night was a new babysitter. I was totally caught off gaurd by her. She is going to Harvard and double majoring is Mechanical Engineering and Astrophysics. She wants to be an astronaut. She drives a lexus. She is SUPER SMART. Damon and I were talking about college and our boys...and he said, "Our boys will NEVER go to Harvard." I was thinking WHO SAYS? I personally don't think they will go to Harvard because God has even better plans for them (like seminary!), but really...they are sons of the Most High God, who thought enough of me to listen to my prayers and my hearts cry. He loved me enough to give me my hearts desire (a changed Snookster and a WHOLE family), why would he not shower my children with such love?

 

I know it's hard to go from looking at life and goals in a certain way, toward a completely LIMITLESS way of looking at things. But I feel that is what we are called to do here. The future for us is GREAT! God is going to direct us in His path for our lives, and no matter where that path leads, I know it will be so awesome...because if we are on His path, then we must be in His presence, right?

 

I feel so blessed that I get to look forward to such a future. And I feel so blessed that God has put in me the desire not to be rich or famous or loved by many...the desire he put in my heart is for Him, and my husband...and to train up Godly men who will lay their lives down for their wives. I feel blessed to desire whatever it is that God has put in front of me, and so excited to see what the future holds for my FAMILY!

 

Take Care,

Julie

[dory]

I was telling him my dream of our boys saving not only their virginity for their wives, but their first kisses as well. He said that there was no way that was going to happen. My question? Why not?

 

Here is a product that can help you with that goal. Passport2purity.

 

(See? 'Family Life' is good for SOMETHING. Just not good for REALLY bad marriages between REALLY arrested people! )

 

Blessings on the your latest recovery.

 

[Guest Mrs.Clean]

Hey...we just realized that we only have 60 more days to go!!!!!!

 

Yay!!!!

 

I had better start my diet soon!!!!

 

Gotta look nice for my wedding day!

 

Take Care,

Julie

[Mr. Clean]

Kimberly,

 

Thank you so much for your post, it was very uplifting and encouraging! How nice of you!

 

Julie,

 

I'm so sorry for saying those things about our boys. I didn't mean that they wouldn't be virgins when they get married, I was just thinking that they wouldn't be able to save their first kisses for marriage...because I have never been able to. But, I realize that with God, anything is possible, so thank you for pointing that out. As far as Harvard, I'm sorry for saying that, too...I was making a joke because of our current financial situation. I never meant that they couldn't or wouldn't go to Harvard. With God anything is possible! And they are very smart (like their beautiful mother) .

 

I have every bit of trust and faith in God that He will provide everything we need including money. As far as the lottery is concerned, I'm not praying that God will give me 240 million dollars...I just like to play it every once in a while when the jackpot is big! But, if it bothers you at all, I will stop, because your heart is the most important. Thank you for always helping me to be a better man.

 

I love you!

 

I got very excited today when the pastor from my old church called me. I had fixed his air conditioner a couple of weeks ago, and had spent some time discussing Joel and Kathy's ministry with him and how much it had helped us in our marriage, and how much it has helped me to become a better husband, a better man and a better Christian. He asked me today for information on the ministry so that he could share the information with another couple in the church who was having similar problems, because he has seen how much it has helped us. I was very excited to be a positive witness to someone, and am seeing how much God can use us to be an example for hurting couples. I dropped off a copy of Joel and Kathy's books at his house tonight to give to the couple. Praise God, and please pray for them, as Julie and I will be doing also.

 

God Bless,

Mr. Clean

[Looney_Tunes]

I keep reading this thread, and all I can think is, "Who is this guy, and what has he done with Damon?" :P

 

Seriously, I'm thrilled for both of you! ::clap

[Sister B]

Hey Julesy . . . I read what Damon said about your boys and i remember an assignment that my 13 year old was doing . . . a career assessment. He was to ask 4 adults who knew him, what they thought a good career was. I said "Lawyer, because he loves to talk and argue! OR a professional soccer player". Our neighbor said "a coach - because of his love of sports. Another friend said "comedian - because he is quite funny. His father when asked said "middle management". That's a pretty high aspiration for our son don't you think?? Wonder what that's about. It's like he doesn't even know his son. Deep inside, maybe they relate their sons too closely to who they are? I too, think with God, all things are possible!

 

I am SO glad that you guys are workin' this thing. And that another set of children will have two parents that are willing to fight like crazy to give them a stable godly family!

 

I'm very proud of both of you!!!!

[Guest Mrs.Clean]

I keep reading this thread, and all I can think is, "Who is this guy, and what has he done with Damon?" :P

 

Seriously, I'm thrilled for both of you! ::clap

 

Thanks, Looney! I think the same thing.

 

Remember on Men in Black when the country lady says that her husband was an alien in an Edgar (his name) skin? That's what Damon is, except in a good way! He is Christ in a Damon skin!

 

Take Care,

Julie

[Guest Mrs.Clean]

Hey Julesy . . . I read what Damon said about your boys and i remember an assignment that my 13 year old was doing . . . a career assessment. He was to ask 4 adults who knew him, what they thought a good career was. I said "Lawyer, because he loves to talk and argue! OR a professional soccer player". Our neighbor said "a coach - because of his love of sports. Another friend said "comedian - because he is quite funny. His father when asked said "middle management". That's a pretty high aspiration for our son don't you think?? Wonder what that's about. It's like he doesn't even know his son. Deep inside, maybe they relate their sons too closely to who they are? I too, think with God, all things are possible!

 

I am SO glad that you guys are workin' this thing. And that another set of children will have two parents that are willing to fight like crazy to give them a stable godly family!

 

I'm very proud of both of you!!!!

 

Ouch. That hurts! I hope I don't do that to my kids. My parents did that to me. I remember my first job was scooping ice cream, and I was SO PROUD of that job. I had lots of repeat customers, and I thought I was doing a great job because my boss liked me and what not. I asked my mom if my friend could come move down to the Keys with us (my job was there, where we vacationed during the summer) and that I would like for her to get a job where I worked. Then I said, "but I'm kind of scared that they'll like her better than me, and that she'll be a better worker." My mother said, "The truth hurts, doesn't it?" I was 15.

 

Obviously it burns because I remember it to this day, and I'm 36 now.

 

Hopefully Damon and I will be healed enough that neither of us will do it to our kids. I can see that it would be hard with my daughter because of her disability...I find myself in my mind excluding certain things out of her life because I think she can't do them. But honestly, with all of her disabilities, she is in REGULAR classes at school and getting A's and B's...so she's obviously quite capable!

 

I have to learn to be careful NOT to limit God, because if I do, I am also limiting His great purpose for myself and my family.

 

Love ya!

Julie

[dory]

But, she threw us a curve ball and recalculated everything and added in more expenses and now has come up with a number that is probably legal, but absolutely unaffordable for us. I got her e mail last night at 11:30 and it stressed me out, so I spent some time checking things out online and whatnot.

 

In going back thru your string a little, this one jumped out at me.

 

"her recalculated everything and added in more expenses" is not "probably legal" and the courts will make sure its not "unaffordable" for you.

 

In ohio, when I went thrut his about 14 years ago, the rule of thumb was "15%" of his income. Insurance coverage paid for by the father could help reduce that amount. While daycare expenses paid by the mom in order to work would increase what he would need to pay.

 

This is all calculated by the courts and she would need to provide proof. Its the courts final decision, not hers. But she would need to go thru the courts to enforce it.

[dory]

His father when asked said "middle management". That's a pretty high aspiration for our son don't you think?? Wonder what that's about. It's like he doesn't even know his son. Deep inside, maybe they relate their sons too closely to who they are?

 

So true. But there are drawbacks on the other end of the spectrum whereby the CEO Dad is so in love with money and work that he PUSHES the boy to Harvard to do the same to support his maturing idolization of technology and fast cars - just like Dad. Ugh.

 

It must all be in "balance", with God as the fulcrum, else there are traps on either side of the pendulum swing. When I think of pure talent without integrity, I think of Enron or Hitler.

 

But with Damon, who IS pursuing God, yes, there would be good fruit that could flow from speaking HIGH aspirations into the boys' lives. Kids really do soak up what they think that we think they could become - ALL with God as their lead.

[Tigger]

Dory,

 

As always, excellent. AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!! You are blessed Julie to have such great women of GOD who come here and share their hearts with you!! Have an awesome day!!

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

[Abigail]

It must all be in "balance", with God as the fulcrum, else there are traps on either side of the pendulum swing. When I think of pure talent without integrity, I think of Enron or Hitler.

 

Fab, Dory! (Were you inspired by my post to bgbg, perchance? )

 

I love it. We inspire each other, and spiral up and up and up. Julie is wise, Tigger is wise, those who are teachable (even in a raw, yet-unschooled state) are wise.

 

There is just amazing truth and love and wisdom here.....like no other.

 

I feel blessed to know all of you.

 

Much love,

Abigail

[Abigail]

Oh - Dory - on the $ calcs, there are many more factors that are considered besides a set percentage. Length of marriage, abuse perpetrated, previous standard of living, etc., will change the percentage greatly.

 

Just want to throw that out there.

 

Abigail

[dory]

Oh - Dory - on the $ calcs, there are many more factors that are considered besides a set percentage. Length of marriage, abuse perpetrated, previous standard of living, etc., will change the percentage greatly.

 

Could be...

 

But in Ohio. Those things you mentioned are factors that affect "alimony", not "child support". Child support is pretty basic here.