Working for her

[Peter]

This is my first post and a quick summary of my story. My wife and I and two children were working in international Christian service for three years. I was unaware that my 15 year marriage was in trouble during this time. I was not treating my wife as the precious jewel that she is, and I took her for granted. I used pornography my entire marriage. I did not sense her pain nor appreciate that I was controlling her and not cherishing her. I was not sacrificing my life for her and building her up. I worked too hard and concentrated on my own needs, not recognizing that she was unhappy.

 

Five months ago she left me suddenly and took our children back to Canada. I was shocked and hurt and responded in anger, threatening her and trying to force her to return instead of winning her heart back. In the process, I lost my job, closed our ministry and returned to Canada. We attended the intensive but I was not willing to accept that I was to blame for our separation. Now I am living alone, trying to learn how to be a better husband, and trying to show my wife that I treat the children well when she lets me see them. She is not ready to see me yet, but we have had a few phone conversations. I am reading and praying and trying to find a job and trying to become the man God wants me to be. I am suffering tremendously. This crisis has disturbed our family and friends and children greatly.

 

Tonight I was able to tell my wife that I would accept her staying at home with the children in future, which before embarrassed me. I also gave her a large sum of money. She is deeply wounded by me and although I don't fully understand her actions, I can see that I need to step up and die to myself for her sake. Whatever is bothering her is my problem too, and I need to change in order to make her happy in the future. This represents a big change from where I was, which was blaming her for destroying my career and trying to sue her for taking my children out of our country. I need help in winning her heart back! Please pray for me.

[Looney_Tunes]

Hi Peter,

 

We were at your intensive - up front on the same side of the room you were on. I'm thrilled to see you posting! I will freely admit that my husband and I looked at you and thought, this guy just isn't getting it. I'm so glad you finally did! Your wife is precious, and she deserves a husband who will treat her like a princess.

 

The best advice I can offer you right now is to stay plugged in - keep reading the books, keep watching the videos, and especially keep posting here. Be honest about what you're feeling and thinking. The helpers here are awesome and can help you work through whatever you're struggling with, but you have to be transparent. No one can help you if you hide behind a wall.

 

Since you're not in the same house, you need to get creative about finding ways to bless your sweet wife. I know she doesn't want to see you right now, but you can send a card or flowers. You can go over to the house when she's not there (if that's ok with her) and cut the grass. I'm sure the guys here can help you with lots of ideas.

 

We're praying for you both.

[gms]

Peter - welcome to the forum and I too and glad you are posting, you can learn so much from other people's stories and input. Let us know what questions you have and how we can help you walk this out work towards winning your bride's heart back.

[HerDestiny]

Peter - good to have you here. My wife and I were also at your Intensive - we sat up a row and over one from you.

 

I will pray for you, and I am glad that you are starting to see the impacts of your choices on your wife's heart. That's big, and I can tell you that letting God lead you through the pain that you have caused your wife will be an awful, painful, ugly journey, but I pray that you have the courage to face it head-on, unlike I did. I can tell you that the more you put it off, the longer it will take to win back your wife, and the more pain you will cause her.

 

Again, welcome, and let me know if I can help in any way...

HerDensity

[Miss Jane Bennett]

Your humility in writing all of this is admirable. It is the first step. Praise God that you have repented of your anger and vindictive behavior after your wife's leaving. For you it was sudden. For her it was after 15 years of loneliness and unbearable pain. It is so interesting that men can do pornography their whole marriage and then also say that they didn't realize their marriage was in trouble. Even if your wife didn't know you were doing pornography, she knew something was terribly wrong. God designed us all to need intimacy (as in relational intimacy). You were getting your intimacy (false intimacy) from the porn, and rejecting the true intimacy of relationship. You have spent your married life concentrating on your own needs, as you said. Your wife has been rejected and unspeakably lonely.

 

I don't fully understand her actions

Most of us women here on the forum totally understand her actions. You are starting to try to understand, and hopefully you will soon. Please take HerDensity's post to heart. He said it very well.

 

I will pray for you and your wife and children. God bless you and strengthen you as you die to self and win your wife's heart.

[Peter]

Thanks for your encouragement. I have started dying to myself by trying to avoid telling my wife the pain I am in because I feel so rejected by her sudden action. I struggled a lot at the intensive with accepting the blame for our failed marriage when I had thought things were going fine. I struggled with the idea that all marriage breakdowns in the room were the husband's fault, but I can now see that I need to step up and take the blame and try to heal my wife for what I have done to her.

 

For five months I saw her as a vindictive enemy who was trying to destroy my life and take my money. Last night she actually talked to me on the phone and showed me that she is wounded. For the first time I saw her as injured instead of blissfully happy to be alone. I was able to tell her that she was the most important thing in my life, not my career. I was able to show her that I accept the blame and that she can tell me about what I have done to hurt her and I will be accountable for it. I thought it was a very helpful conversation, but she said it drained her emotionally and that she still needs more time alone and can't meet with me face to face.

 

When I picked up the children today I brought flowers to her new house and tried to speak to her. She is very stiff and wants to discuss details about the children instead of the issues that separated us. I tried to show her that I am working for her healing, and I will have to accept that she needs more space even after five months. I am deathly afraid of her threats to divorce me. I am very worried because she says some reassuring things and then changes her mind and withdraws again. We each can't trust the other at all.

 

I have decided to give up on working at all aside from some night shifts to keep us going. This is a huge sacrifice for me as a completely career-driven person. I need to put our marriage crisis first, no matter what it costs me financially or in terms of lost career opportunities. I was very embarrassed to tell my former boss today that I am not working at all, but I did.

 

I know my wife is going to read this, so I want to tell her again that nothing matters in life right now besides our marriage and children. You are the most important thing in my life and five months of separation has shown me that. Please forgive me for what I have done to you before you left and since you left.

 

You said you have nightmares of my revenge and wrath and that is a reflection of how angry I really am. I am starting personal counseling and trying to change. I have read all the books we got at the intensive. I am trying to be what you need. I am learning to look at you as hurt instead of on a power trip. I am ready for boundaries and a new approach to our marriage. I am ready to face whatever punishment you have in store for me.

 

I told you I wasn't sure if you were worth it after what you did to me. I now know that you are worth it and worth whatever it takes to get you healed. You are beautiful and valuable to me and it took me a long while to appreciate how important you really are.

[Kay]

Hi Peter,

 

I can tell you that the more you put it off, the longer it will take to win back your wife, and the more pain you will cause her.

 

Take this from someone who's been in your wife's shoes. My husband quit a month or so after the Intensive, also. He wasn't buying into all that "dying to self, garbage" OH, he loved me, but wanted the Marriage on his terms. He knew best! Does any of this ring a bell to you ?

 

I hope, for your wife's sake, that you are serious, now. That you will do everything in your power to win your wife's heart back, and become the husband that she desperately needs.

 

IN case your wondering what happened to us.... IT took over a year for my husband to grow up and DO THIS, and tons of unnecessary pain for me. But, once he made the choice to do what was needed, we soared forward, quickly. We are now, happier than we have ever been. Go check out the Cruise pictures on Today's News section. This could be YOU!

 

Humbling yourself and admitting that you hurt your wife is a huge step. Good for you!

 

How about initiating the two of you going on the Conference Calls together. Even if just to listen. You know how this works, since you've been to an Intensive. She will respond to you. Feed her death, and you will get nothing back. Feed her life, and she will blossom!

 

praying for you,

Kay

[Kay]

HI again,

 

We must have been typing at the same time. Please make sure to read what I wrote above your most recent post.

 

I am ready to face whatever punishment you have in store for me.

 

Your wife is not punishing you, she is responding to the hurt that you have caused her. When you refused to work this program, this told her that she and your children were not worth it to you. When she says that she doesn't want to see you, it is not because she hates you, it is because she is afraid of you, afraid of getting hurt again.

 

Right now, you need to put your feelings on a back burner for a season and concentrate on healing her heart. That is your only goal. When the things she says gets difficult for you to hear, try this...........

 

L. = listen ( without saying one word) O. = Offer an apology V = validate her feelings (repeat what she said and take ownership of that hurt, regardless of whether or not your intent wasn't what she is saying - feelings are never wrong) and E = Embrace her ( if she lets you - I'm guessing that right now, she won't. Please respect this - encourage her that you are in this for the long haul. This spells LOVE.

 

Joel says that you are intelligent. Unfortunately, intelligence usually accompanies arrogance. Leave that behind for a season, too, and you'll do just fine.

 

Kay

[Miss Jane Bennett]

I have started dying to myself by trying to avoid telling my wife the pain I am in because I feel so rejected by her sudden action.

It is good that you are having to feel what rejection is like. You feel maybe a fraction of a per cent of the rejection she has felt from you for 15 years.

 

This is a huge sacrifice for me as a completely career-driven person.

Avoid talking to your wife about your huge sacrifices. They are nothing compared to the sacrifices you forced her to make. Any of the things you suffer are the consequences of your sexual immorality against your marriage and your breaking of your vows to honor and cherish your wife. God forgives you and loves you, and your wife will eventually be able to forgive you, too, if you consistently apologize (every day for a long while) and own all responsibility for what you did to destroy your marriage.

[gms]

Peter - everyone is giving you great insight and advice. Make sure that you are listening carefully to your wife about what she needs and what she wants to talk about. If she doesn't want to talk about your relationship right now then listen to her and don't push it. If she wants to talk about issues surrounding the children then talk about that and listen to her concerns and work with her to address those concerns; without any comments like "see we can work together, this is proof that we can make this marriage work too." The key is to listen to her and meet her expressed needs, that is how you will rebuild trust over time, time meaning be prepared to take 2 years to fully win her heart back.

[dory]

Joanna's most recent post was moved to the women's section.

 

http://www.joelandkathy.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=46137#46137

[Peter]

Wow it is so great to see something written by my wife. She has been avoiding talking to me for five months and has been so unwilling to tell me about her concerns that I am still swimming in a sea of uncertainty about why she left me.

 

She says has done a lot to save our marriage, but she has never come out and told me that our marriage was in trouble. She just left! If she was working to save our marriage, why didn't she tell me that she was doing that? All I knew was that she was reading books about marriage, and I thought I was participating in what she learned, and I did make positive changes in response, such as a contract for equal sexual initiation, and a program of compliments and feelings sharing on a nightly basis. I am resentful that she kept her feelings so hidden and didn't consider me worthy of a little news that she was so unhappy! Less than a month before she left we had a vacation in Singapore where the entire family was as happy as could be, and a friend who lived with us told us that we were the model of a Christian marriage! Where was the four years of mounting distress at that point?

 

I can't understand why she felt scared of me, since I have never been physically violent. I am angry and I did shout at her at times, but I did not know that she was scared of me. She kept her crisis of faith to herself.

 

If my wife wanted to live separately for a time for the purpose of healing, she could have told me her intention. Instead what I got was a phone call at work that she was getting into a car and stealing my children to another country, followed by months of uncertainty about her plans and our future. Even now she blithely tells me she intends to divorce me as soon as she is legally allowed.

 

Leaving without explanation with our children was a rash act that broke international law and she did not appreciate the damage it has caused to our reputation, our witness as Christians who actually stood up publicly for marriage and family values, and my professional life. I had to return to India to clean up the mess that she left behind, and sell all of our possessions.

 

We have spent our lives developing our work in India through donorship and mutual vision. My wife threw that all away in an instant because she was distressed, but there were many appropriate ways to exit from there including notifying our mission agency that we needed time away, that we were in distress, that we wanted a year off, that we had marriage concerns. Many things could have salvaged our jobs. If she needed out of the stressful country, we could have arranged this.

 

I am not trying to justify anything to this forum. I can take all the criticism and judgment that you people want to give out. I am not intentionally a bad husband, but I am unaware of my wife's needs. This is partly because I am so emotionally inept and partly because she can't seem to let me know what is bothering her.

 

At this point she treats me like a distraction to her busy schedule. It is agony to me. I honestly think she is taking pleasure in seeing my career in pieces and my heart torn apart. I feel she is on a revenge high. I have laid down my life by writing 100 things I have done to hurt her, by apologizing continuously, by giving her a LOT of money, by buying her a diamond ring, by groveling, by attending the intensive, by reading all the books and summarizing them on email, by telling her I am completely at fault, by dropping the threats, by engaging the children, by joining this forum, by sending more flowers than I can count, by returning to Canada, by telling her she can stay at home for the rest of her life, by cleaning up the mess she left in India, by scrambling to get extra work to support our broken family, and by accepting that she is hurt instead of hateful. Nothing is good enough for her, so she remains distant and cold, teasing me with promises to talk or meet and then backing out.

 

She has posted falsehoods about me on this forum that I resent. Her perception about what happened at the prayer intervention was completely wrong. I sent her comments to the people that were there and they confirmed that it was not a confrontation designed to "break" me, but a caring intervention for healing that they wish she would also have the courage to attend. I did not say anything about wanting to destroy her, and since she was not present, I can't understand where this biased posting came from.

 

I have learned a lot in the last five months. I am no longer dependent on my wife for anything at all. I have made a decision to put my marriage first, and to not speak to other women. She is worth enduring whatever pain she intends to inflict on me. I have put my life on hold for her sake. I have been through a lot of anger, and I have started to control it. I have sought God for relief and direction in a way that I had not before. I have faced the fact that I have emotionally abused her. I have asked for an entirely new marriage paradigm. I want an empowered wife who can stand up to me and share her needs. (I thought this was what I had married.)

 

I admit that I resisted this program at the intensive. That intensive was the first time I had encountered her since she disappeared a month earlier. At that time, I still had no idea that she was wounded instead of vindictive. Since then I have been through the worst five months of my life and I can accept these concepts now. I have grown up and I can face consequences of my treatment of her. I love my wife and I want her back, but in a new relationship in which her needs are expressed and met, and she is treated like a precious jewel. I made a commitment before God to this woman and I intend to honor it, not run away from it. If she wants to live alone for the rest of her life, I will move on, but I don't feel that is what God nor the children want.

[Miss Jane Bennett]

For thirty years I told my husband how he was hurting me and our boys, what I needed him to change about his thinking and his behavior, begged him to go with me for counseling. Finally, two and a half years ago I figured out a way to force him into counseling. It wasn't until he heard it from someone else that he "realized how hurtful his behavior had been." He had been so enslaved in his selfishness that everything I said, over and over, went right over his head. So I find it hard to believe that your wife never told you how unhappy she was and how much you had hurt her.

 

I listened on some of the call last night. Whenever you spoke, I bristled. Even when you said you wanted to be Christlike, your arrogance and attitude of self defense came through in your tone of voice. And you kept interrupting, expecially your wife. This is just an honest reaction from an "innocent bystander." You have obviously been accustomed to forcing your way and your reasoning and your desires onto your family. It doesn't take physical violence to made people afraid. You are extremely intimidating, used to getting your way. You sound like my husband did a year ago.

 

If your wife is seems vindictive, she is mirroring your attitudes. She has been squashed and discounted and neglected and abused. You listed three things that you were doing to participate in what she was learning from the books on marriage. They were obviously not enough. You can do and do and do good things, but they don't do a bit of good if what is "in the air" (your attitudes) is hurtful. From hearing you talk last night, and from my own experience, it sounds like your attitudes are impossible to live with. You are doing, but you are not being. Until you have a humble, godly attitude, none of those things you are doing will mean anything. Even an apology list of 100 things doesn't mean anything if you are arrogant and unremorseful in your daily attitudes, and blaming your wife for your lost reputation.

 

Let's say that your wife did not handle this situation the right way at all. She was coming from a position of being thrown way off balance by you, the man who was supposed to be the giver of life to his family, and was not. YOU are the one that destroyed your marriage and your ministry and your reputation. Not your wife. You are the one that committed sexually immorality during the whole of your marriage. That sin gave Satan free reign in your home--in your life, in your wife's life, in your children's lives.

 

You are not in a position to be in Christian ministry right now. That can be redeemed. But "a year off" is not enough time to renew your mind and grow you into a man of God who can be an example to others in a Christian ministry situation. You do not sound like a man who is broken yet by his own sin. You sound like a man who is angry for having lost his reputation.

[Kay]

Peter,

 

After reading your post above, I am so saddened for your wife. You are not getting this at all. Everything is still about you. Unfortunately, all the flowers and gifts in the world will not bring your wife back to you. Your family is in deep trouble, and you continue to defend and blame everything on your wife. Your wife didn't walk away from you, she RAN away because you were destroying her. She ran away to save herself and her children from a lifetime of abuse.

 

Unless, you have a change of attitude, you will lose. You will lose your wife, your children, your family. Guess what ? My husband loved me, too. He loved our children. He did not believe in divorce. He didn't understand what he was doing that was so bad. After all, he was here, not out drinking, not beating me, he LOVED me. Love is only a word. It means absolutely nothing when the actions portrayed hurts the other.

 

This Ministry is all about a man laying down his life for his wife. This means that your feelings do not count at all, for a season, UNTIL she is healed. So, you either stuff your feelings and put her first and stay here to learn HOW to do this, or you lose. You lose everything.

 

My heart goes out to your wife, cause I was there, in her shoes. We all were. I'm sorry, but you will get no sympathy from me. Not with a post that is written above. Go back and count how many times you used the word, " I " Perhaps, that will make you understand how arrogant you are. Sorry, if this is harsh. I guess you touched a nerve inside of me.

 

Your wife is a beautiful woman of God and she deserves to be treated as much. You have a very long way to go. Hopefully, you will get this in time to stop another Marriage from becoming a divorce statistic.

 

praying for your family,

Kay

 

btw... you were glad that your wife posted ? My guess is she is back running away from you, now. You NEED to provide a safe place for her to talk. If you don't, she will withdraw again.

[JJ]

Peter,

 

I heard you on the call last night and would like to share a couple of thoughts with you that might help you make progress in healing your wife.

 

Your wife began by sharing how scared she was when you stayed outside of the house when you dropped off the children, it was creepy and threatening to her and her friend. At the point she tells you something like that it is vitally important that you listen and begin to try to understand why she feels that way.

If you continue the pattern of trying to explain and defend your behavior she will not continue to share with you and you will continue to put your feelings first and the healing will not come.

 

Also at the end she shared that she felt as if she had no choice to marry you because you were so compelling. Again at that point it is your job to find out why she felt that way and not defend yourself against her feelings that are causing you pain. If you will work to understand her and put her before yourself you will begin to grow. Yes, it will help you mature and bring you out of the state of self-focus that you have been living in.

 

The way you reacted to those two statements made by your wife made it very clear that you didn't understand why she felt the way she did and that it was most important to you to defend yourself, this is your opportunity to become the man God is calling you to be

.

It is good to see that you are committing yourself to the process of bringing healing to your wife and marriage. It will be challenging, but call on God for help so that you can be a safe place for your wife to share and you will grow.

[JoelandKathy]

Thank you, Ladies.

 

Peter, read and re-read and re-read those last three posts.

 

Your struggle is a constant struggle to get back into control.

 

Joann is wrong for leaving India - because you don't think she should have.

 

She is wrong for staying in Canada - because you don't think she should have.

 

She is wrong for not being back together with you - because you think she should be with you.

 

She is wrong for buying the house - because you think that she should not buy it. (Must give Kudo's here though - you did support her in this by helping financially in a substantial way)

 

She is wrong for living in the town she bought the house in - because you want to live elsewhere for job purposes - even though you can, by your own admission, earn a living where she is. It is just not something that you want to do.

 

She is wrong for buying a house in the country because you don't like living in the country and want to live in the city.

 

Do you see a pattern here? Even though you do eventually give in (You did, after all, finally give the India mission up, you did eventually realize that in order to restore your family that you have to stay in Canada, you did help Elisabeth to get the home she is purchasing etcetera) - even though you do eventually give in, it is only by kicking and screaming all the way there.

 

Then, the next step in the parade is that you STILL, even AFTER you finally do the right thing, you then hold on to what YOU wanted and complain that your wife was wrong for making you do the RIGHT thing. (of course you don't realize it is the right thing.)

 

So, bottom line, is there is, at the center of everything, Peter. What Peter wants. What Peter thinks is right or wrong. Yes, Peter will give in if his wife gives him no choice but Peter is going to keep trying to get everyone in his world to believe that he is right and she is wrong.

 

Peter - your wife lived with you for all of these years.

 

Most of these wives would testify to you that their husbands, thought they were bad husbands too, and in many cases, the husband's are only on the road to recovery - but the wives would tell you that their husband's are easy compared to you.

 

Peter, there is a reason that everyone is telling you that you are wrong.

 

What do you think that reason is?

 

Perhaps it is because you are wrong?

 

No, I am not putting this post here to humiliate or insult you. This is to help you.

 

There is this deep, deep place in you of wanting total control that just has to die - and until you die to that, your wife is never going to feel safe to be with you. Is that what you want? No way. I know that you don't want that.

 

Is that what we want? No way.

 

Is that what your wife wants? Well, only if you are never safe - but if you ever become safe, your wife, like almost every other wife, would want to be with you. She is a quality woman.

 

There is only one thing stopping this process, Peter - and that is the depth of your self centeredness. (Wanting the world to revolve around you.)

 

Guess what? A man is supposed to make his world revolve around his wife. When a man reverses that, and tries to make her revolve around his world, it ain't a pretty site.

 

Your wife has simply decided that she is going to take care of herself now. The only question that has to be answered is this: Do you want to be part of her life? If yes, then you have to realize, it is only going to be that way if you decide to become a man who loves his wife as Christ loves the church - by laying his life down for her.

 

Who cares about where you live?

Who cares about a career?

Who cares about living in the country or city?

 

What matters is my wife. Laying my life down for her. Loving her as Christ loves the church.

 

And guess what, Peter?

 

Happy wife, happy life.

 

It is not a trite statement. It is very, very real.

 

Jump in, Peter. The water is GREAT.

 

Peter, do you remember how I described in the intensive the excruciating pain that I went through in dying to myself? It goes much quicker if you embrace the process of death instead of fighting it.

 

Kathy then came to life to me, as your wife will come back to life to you - and guess what? I live the most full, happy married life of any man that I know. It is all good, all the time, every day, in every way.

[firewalker]

I was unaware that my 15 year marriage was in trouble during this time.

BUT

I used pornography my entire marriage.

 

This is very telling. It appears you are quite disconnected from the consequences of your behaviors and choices in life.

 

Stay in this truth, Peter:

 

You sinned against God and your wife because of Your moral failure and complete lack of character, every moment in your marriage, while you endulged your lusts for other women.

 

You were not fit for the mission field due to chronic sexual sin, so it was You that destroyed the opportunity for God to use you further.

 

You were the ignorant one, ignoring all of your wife's requests for deeper intimacy and love, not because she said nothing.

 

You paint a very fine picture of yourself and your wounds and your sacrifices and keep forgetting the very facts that you, through your pride, selfishness, lust, self involvement and ignorance, ran your own marriage off into a ditch.

 

Now...what do you want?

 

Do you want to be right in your own faulty thinking, or do you want to get this marriage back on the road, back moving towards God's best and your intended journey?

 

God is using this crisis to wake you up. It is a giant mirror, reflecting all the sin and failures which you covered up. Now it is time for some pruning. All the dead branches must be cut off and cast into the fire. Sorry for mixing my metaphors.

 

Do you want to hold on to your deadness?

 

Don't you want new life, growth, renewed purpose and to walk with God's favor and blessing?

 

Or, do you need to go another round with the Lord God Almighty before you understand who you were meant to be, confess how far short you have fallen from that man of God, and renew your mind and your resolve toward Christlikeness. Christlikeness doesn't begin on the mission field, my friend, it begins with your wife. Faithful in your behavior at home, trustworthy beyond the home.

 

You get to choose your life, Peter, but everything you have chosen and will choose has consequences. You don't live in isolation, or in a vacuum. You are one with your wife, thus all of your selfish sinful choices affect her. Conversely, all of your sacrificial and Christlike behavior affects her as well.

 

Choose well, and that includes the heart attitude that you Choose to stand in, cultivate and throw out there for your wife and children to experience.

[Jaya]

Just to further what firewalker had to say regarding the use of pornography in your marriage. There was not a single time my husband looked at pornography where I did not know he was looking at it. No matter where I was at the time (at work, grocery shopping, out with friends, family, etc.) every single time he was looking and self gratifying I knew in my spirit at that exact moment he was. I could come home and name the exact time and it was right every single time. He never understood it - I don't even think I understood it. I just knew. That is all I wanted to point out. Your wife knew in her spirit. Sometimes I don't know if we are able to listen to what our spirits are saying (this sounds so new agey but that is not my intention, I believe it is Holy Spirit who brings what is hidden in darkness into the light for our own good and for God's glory in victory) but eventually we all come to that place where our spirit starts screaming. That is when we will do whatever it takes. This is your 'whatever it takes moment' and you have a great opportunity to heal your wife's heart and win her back. Hopefully you can stop looking at your wife's actions and look at the three fingers pointing back at yourself. All of us here will be rejoicing when you reach that OHM but you've got to step up to the plate and start growing up in order to get there. This is not about what's been done to you and what you have lost. It is about becoming Christlike and winning back your wife's heart. My husband never was able to have any victory over pornography until he started getting involved with this ministry and becoming Christlike. You can do this. You can become Christlike. You can win your wife back. this is all possible but whether or not it happens is up to you.

[Peter]

Thanks for the input. It is all correct. I was not worthy of my calling as a missionary while I participated in porn. I am self-centered and emotionally immature. I keep trying to blame my wife for our separation. I am very impatient for her to start talking to me. I can see that she is not interested in me at all because of her hurt. I have rejected her and I am paying the price for it. Even now my selfish nature is winning and I am continuing to use angry words in my email communication. I just can't seem to die!

 

My counselor is helping me to see my emotional underdevelopment, which comes from many sources in my upbringing. Of course my wife is right about me. As Nair said she is the moral and emotional compass that I need to follow. I have always treated her marriage talk and book discussions as a painful hoop to jump through in order to get sex. I have never put her first as long as I have known her. We have had a power struggle in our relationship from the day we met. On that day, we starting flirting by trying to outsmart each other. For 21 years it has been her against me. We have had good times, but I can see we have never achieved the kind of oneness that we could now achieve.

 

In terms of the porn, we were pretty open about it. I had a cycle of use that she predicted and knew. It was not a secret, although I would try (and fail) to hide it. She told me it hurt her and I continued to do it because I am selfish and I don't care about her needs.

 

I am too focused on my own pain, but this site is helping me to see that I need to get past it. I am starting to understand that she is hurt despite her external appearance of happiness. Every time I hand over the kids I prepare to try to be safe for her and usually fail.

 

Please continue to pray for me as I travel for job interviews. I want to be with my children, but I also want to continue with my career.

 

I have agreed to sell our house for her benefit. We have quite a few important financial decisions to be made, as we transition to life in a new continent. I am in acute culture shock. I miss India!

 

I am accustomed to getting my way. That is the nature of my job, and it has been the case in my marriage as well. My attitude in all of the things I have done has not been correct, but has been trying to convince her to come back as soon as possible.

 

I did follow your advice and mow her lawn yesterday. We did chat with Joel and Kathy on the phone, and I thought it went well. We have scheduled another discussion tonight. She seems willing to open up about her feelings as long as she is on the phone in a supervised setting. I will try to listen to her without interrupting.

 

I am compelling. I was raised in a family that argued to win. I do not back down easily, as you can clearly see...

 

I reached a point where I decided that I do want my wife back, and I will need to reach a point where I can die to myself. It will come soon, I can see it just over the horizon. I want a happy and healed wife and a new marriage. I don't want to hold onto the bad pattern I was in, I want to change. I am becoming convinced of the truth of this death concept. Giving up what I have given up has taught me some things already.

 

I did wreck my marriage. It has just taken me a lot of time and effort to realize it. I am in the climax of a cosmic struggle over blame and control and I am "losing" so my nature is fighting back.

[gms]

Peter consider this:

 

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me and the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:19b-20

 

Crucified + no longer live = death, death of self/sin nature

 

Christ lives in me = new life in Him

 

life in the flesh by faith in the Son of God = complete dependence and reliance on Him for wisdom, power, path and love - His life in you and through you

 

Who loved me and gave Himself for me = Jesus really loves you this much and he did this knowing all the sins you would committ against Him - "But God demonstrates His love for us in this, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 He loves you not based on you earning it or deserving it or what you can "accomplish" for him, but becaues He is love and He has freely given His life for you to set you free from sin and death of His own accord, His own counsel and wisdom.

 

You wrote:

I am becoming convinced of the truth of this death concept.

 

Get there quickly, there is no other way...

 

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" Ephesians 5:25

 

Just as Christ loved and gave Himself up for her = crucified, death

 

Life through death, there is no other way...Die to self, Love you wife...

[JoelandKathy]

Wow. Can we frame this, Peter?

 

Be prepared for Joanna to suggest that you are not being sincere. That is normal. Sometimes guys are completely sincere and sometimes they are not. If your wife did not doubt your sincerity, then that would be abnormal. She is a very normal wife - so expect her to offer you doubt or a quiet skepticism in the beginning. That is part of the process of healing for both of you.

 

You are entering into a scary new world - a world of changing in some very deep places - places in you that are wounded and dysfunctional from the past. Let me assure you, the "other side" here is a wonderful, wonderful place to live. Seeing the "old Joel" as a different life and the Kathy that I have today? Wow. What a wonderful life.

[Joanna means gift]

I must say that Joel is right. I need consistent, trustworthy behaviour from Peter to heal. Right now, whenever I hear things like this, I get slightly excited that this could work out, but then quickly get scared when I think of how he has said good things in the past, but quickly swings back to abusing me again.

 

I find myself getting stronger each day as I learn how to "go toe to toe" with Peter, but it is hard work!

 

Joanna

[MaryJane]

We have had a power struggle in our relationship from the day we met. On that day, we starting flirting by trying to outsmart each other.

I don't know either one of you. However, I believe I "know" that the power struggle was one-sided. You wanted to prove you were smarter than your wife-to-be; she wanted to enjoy your company.

 

For 21 years it has been her against me.

You mean, it has been you against her.

 

This sounds like nit-picking, I guess, but I believe it's the absolute truth.

[Peter]

I am being very sincere. I can now see that happiness can come from putting her needs first. I was reading a story to the children tonight about a female squirrel who met a group of toy soldiers and took care of them until they returned the favor by defending her. She was happy and they were happy. I told our daughters that men need to fight for women and women need to take care of men. That is in our natures, I believe. I am starting to fight for her against my selfish nature. I am starting to see that she needs me to provide for her and protect her and heal her. I am starting to realize that I am to blame for her unhappiness. I am starting to see that her decisions are just to protect herself and care for her children, not to lash out at me.

 

She is starting to open up very slowly to me. We spoke this afternoon and she is revealing some very scary things about her decisions, her plans and her strength of character. The next while will be very tough, but I will get through it. Our marriage will get through this and be stronger for it. I will put off my needs for a time and work for her.

 

I have seen for the first time a few examples of her responding to me. She doesn't seem to shout at me quite as much, and she is letting me see the children. She thanked me for mowing her lawn, and told me I was doing some things right.

 

I told her we were a good combination financially, and that I wanted us to keep our money in common instead of dividing everything. She is a very shrewd manager of money, unlike me. I need her to help me keep the money I make!

 

She wants a separation agreement, but I want to avoid it if we can. I want to support her with everything I have, not a fraction. If we continue in this good direction, I will even cosign her new mortgage so she has less to worry about financially.

 

"Joanna", you are worth it. Thank you for showing me how bad I am. I will change for you and become what you need me to be. I will explain our situation differently to other people when they ask. I am understanding you better and I am starting to see why you did what you did. You are so strong, you really impress me. You deserve better than what I gave you and I want you to have it.

 

Of course you don't trust me right now, but I will work with everything I have against my nature so that changes are not only word, but action. Please give me a chance. Would you have ever thought I would have sought personal counseling to discuss my weaknesses and my lack of emotional maturity? Did you ever see me cry before this? Is that the man you knew? I am doing it for you. You have taught me a lot by leaving me, and I am trying to swallow my pride and even listen to people like Joel and Kathy...

[Enjoying the sunshine]

Peter,

 

I have been following your story since you have been here on the forum. I want to point something out to you, for your betterment, from your last post..

 

You said:

Of course you don't trust me right now, but I will work with everything I have against my nature so that changes are not only word, but action. Please give me a chance. Would you have ever thought I would have sought personal counseling to discuss my weaknesses and my lack of emotional maturity? Did you ever see me cry before this? Is that the man you knew? I am doing it for you. You have taught me a lot by leaving me, and I am trying to swallow my pride and even listen to people like Joel and Kathy...

 

Here it is - you are SAYING you are swallowing your pride, but this WHOLE paragraph is just oozing with pride, with a "LOOK at what I am doing for you!! Aren't you grateful??? You should be so happy and proud of ME for doing all of this FOR YOU." This is NOT the heart attitude that we as wives need to see, especially if you intend to try and win your wife's heart back!

 

We need REAL genuine humility. Apology. Heartfelt understanding of the pain and agony that we have endured at your (our husband's) hands for all the years of our marriage. The attitude portrayed here is still one of trying to gain control, one of manipulation, and one of abuse. One you will HAVE TO die to if you consider your wife as valuable and worth fighting for.

 

The bible tells us if we choose to try and save our own life surely we will lose it. Do you want to show everyone how GOOD you are? Or do you want to give up your facade, and become humble before your wife and your Lord? This is going to be a painful death for you, but in the end, you will gain far more than you have ever lost.